News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by incongruity on Monday September 19, 2016 @03:04PM (#12533852)
...and "80 million".

Fine, let's quadruple consumption – we're good for 20 million years. Ok, okay, let's go to 100x consumption – we're good for 800,000 years. I think we're ok.

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by dsp1234 on Monday September 19, 2016 @03:32PM (#12534049)
Since the magnetic field of the earth, which protects us from the solar winds among other things, is generated by spinning of the molten outer core, do you happen to know how much of that energy would be available before adverse effects happen?

It's obvious that the answer is less than 100%, since a completely solid core would provide no magnetic field. Is there some way to tell whether it's closer to 0.1%, 1% or 10%?

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by Tuna-Fish on Monday September 19, 2016 @05:26PM (#12534890)
The 80 million years figure is for the heat content of the crust, not the entire earth. The heat content of crust is approx 0.04% of the heat content of earth.

It's not really possible to use enough geothermal for it to have a noticeable effect on the lifespan of the magnetic field. Even completely removing the solid crust of the earth would not really register.

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by dsp1234 on Monday September 19, 2016 @05:39PM (#12534984)
This is a really great point, and probably the key one. It's also probably a good assumption that heat extracted from the Earth's crust after some point would stabilize due to heat differential from the layer's beneath the crust.

So we could take out some percentage of the heat of the crust, thus lowing the total temperature by some amount, but then that loss would be replenished from further down in the core.

It looks like from the calculations elsewhere in the thread that it probably wouldn't even be physically possible to extract that much energy from the crust. We'd just run out since there would be some lag time in replenishing the heat from the core through to the areas of the crust.

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by dpark on Monday September 19, 2016 @03:37PM (#12534080)
Let's assume it's not just 0.1% but 0.001%. That still leaves us a comfortable runway of 19 million years at our current levels.

But also let's hope it's not 0.001% because I'm pretty sure the core will cool more than that on its own over a shorter timespan than 19 million years.

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by drivebyneatfact on Monday September 19, 2016 @05:20PM (#12534825)
Wikipedia suggests cooling of 100 degrees C every billion years.

19 million years is 1.9% of the billion year rate. So it suggests the core should lose 1.9C in 19 million years. That's about 0.035% of the total temp, using Wikipedia's 5700C as the temp estimate.

That's a great initial guess, given how much uncertainty is (i've recently heard core temp could be 4x the wiki number, and some people estimate the earth's core only has lost a few degrees since it formed, rather than nearly 500 degrees). Neat stuff, thanks for providing the opportunity to look in to this.

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by nitrogen on Monday September 19, 2016 @05:09PM (#12534742)
Won't thorium decay keep it warm for a good long while?
Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by dpark on Monday September 19, 2016 @06:15PM (#12535222)
I'm honestly not sure. I don't know how much energy is being created inside the Earth and how much is just residual. It's my understanding that the Earth is slowly cooling, though, so radioactivity isn't replenishing heat as rapidly as we're losing it.
Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by dman on Monday September 19, 2016 @03:23PM (#12533984)
Can we do the same math for electricity consumption from 100 years ago? :)
Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by Normal_gaussian on Monday September 19, 2016 @04:03PM (#12534253)
https://ourfiniteworld.com/2012/03/12/world-energy-consumpti...

No idea how good the source is, however it looks like we have a nice exponential there.

Lets see what the envelope says for an exponent of 2:

Using numbers from parent commentors, log2(6.6 x 10^13) is about 45.9, so we are in our 46th doubling period. A guess on the graph says its 25 years to double.

> The total heat content of the Earth is of the order of 12.6 x 10^24 MJ, and that of the crust the order of 5.4 x 10^21 MJ (Dickson and Fanelli, 2004).

so that's end of crust energy usefulness at the start of the 72nd period and end of Earth energy less than halfway through the 84th period.

So that gives us 500-1000 years of energy from now if we solely use the planets heat. Whether we soley use it or not becomes largely irrelevant due to the exponent, we can stretch it as a major source a few hundred more years or so.

Of course, if in 1000 years we aren't only using this planet we should be good. How many years to the next system again?

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by iaw on Monday September 19, 2016 @04:22PM (#12534377)
Not a good analogy, 100 years ago not only was the population lower but there was no electrical infrastructure.
Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by dman on Monday September 19, 2016 @04:33PM (#12534468)
You are successfully making the point I was trying to.

We are willing to concede that usage patters from 100 years ago are unrealistic current realities.

However we would simultaneously like to use the current reality to project future realities that are much farther away (in some cases 19 million years away).

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by dpark on Monday September 19, 2016 @05:14PM (#12534777)
It doesn't actually matter much if our usage projections are good. What matters is 1) that the energy store is so massive that it's hard to imagine how we could possibly exhaust it, and 2) the current dominant alternative (i.e. fossil fuel) is known to be terrible for us. If we switched to geothermal and set the world up to end humanity in a thousand years, we'd still be better off than continuing our desperate use of fossil fuels and ending humanity even sooner.
Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by jsudhams on Monday September 19, 2016 @11:17PM (#12536752)
The issue is we use up fossil fuels we could still continue for more years, I don't see any reason for it to end much before that. If we make mistake with earth core we would mostly surely setup end of humanity atleast. I would rather focus on getting the world to a place where willno borders and safe religion etc.. which would get lot more runtime for humans than this. If we optimize food production find a better alternative for capatalism we may live better with or with out need for fuel
Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by dpark on Monday September 19, 2016 @11:46PM (#12536892)
Our food production is driven by fossil fuels. Everything from the farm equipment to the fertilizers we spread to the trucks we ship it in are powered by fossil fuels. When we run out of fossil fuels, we better have a back up energy source (or sources) ready, because our food production will plummet if not. So will basically every industry, since they all depend on cheap transport and automation at this time. So we'll all starve while the economy collapses around us and our infrastructure falls apart as we have neither the money nor the energy supplies to fix it.

Yeah, our dependence on fossil fuels is a huge problem, and not just because of climate change (which might also kill us).

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by eggy on Monday September 19, 2016 @11:49PM (#12536910)
I agree somewhat, but even though more devices are electrical or electronic and attached to the grid, they are more efficient. My 42" LED TV is using 95W, less than a 100W light bulb, whereas my old 19" tube color TV in 1978 used more.

Mobile phones didn't exist when I was young, and there are certainly a lot of them now even if they are low power devices, so it would be interesting to see electrical usage patterns pre-mobile phones vs. today.

The same goes for cars. Cars were using leaded gasoline in the US and getting 8 to 12 mpg, and now 30 to 35 mpg or greater on the highway, but do people drive more frequently, and with single riders?

Another question is would any cooling of the total Earth's heat energy be offset by global warming? The thermal differential would be less thereby slowing the migration of heat to the surface?

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by andruby on Tuesday September 20, 2016 @03:49AM (#12537859)
This assumes that nothing mayor is going to change. What if we somehow build a spaceship route from Earth to Mars and we power it through electricity. How much higher would our consumption be if we launch 10,000 spaceships every day?

Or maybe we want to terraform our own planet to counter climate change. These things could use amounts of energy orders of magnitude higher than we use today.

I'm sure 100 years ago didn't expect we would launch 100,000 airplane flights every day [0] :) Nor did they think we would send spaceships to Mars.

[0] http://www.garfors.com/2014/06/100000-flights-day.html

Re:Cornell wants to drill 2-4mi underground for enhanced geo... by dpark on Tuesday September 20, 2016 @03:12PM (#12542375)
What if we also solve fusion and build a Dyson sphere and farm unicorns for automotive fuel?

It seems somewhat unreasonable to assume that our energy usage is going to exponentially increase due to as-yet-unforeseeable future needs and at the same time assume that we'll completely fail to find additional energy sources in the same timeframe.