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Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by xj9 on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @09:27PM (#12502680)
I've worked on a lot of web projects, but still I don't understand why we want to build applications in browsers. Don't get me wrong, I love the web and I've been hacking on it for a long time, but browsers can't do shit. Servers do all of the heavy lifting, even with "modern" web apps. Yet our browsers are resource-hungry monsters.

I'm currently working in the peer to peer application/protocol space and the biggest thing that stands out to me is the impact these technologies could have in developing countries. The challenge is making things light enough to run well on the weak hardware most people have to work with. Browser apps don't make the cut.

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by rpedela on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:03AM (#12503559)
Because I can build my application once and it works everywhere (mostly). Because I can update it whenever I want and I don't have to support multiple versions. Because there is very little friction for users to use my application, they don't have to manually download or upgrade it.
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by kaoD on Thursday September 15, 2016 @05:08AM (#12504497)
This. This so much. And it's safer for the user. Have you ever tried distributing binaries on the internet? People are very reluctant to run a random binary (and rightly so).

Also IMH developer perspective HTML+JS+CSS is surprisingly a not so bad UI toolkit, and React makes the development experience even better.

I will always bet on standards and, at least for now, modern web is the standard that I can trust.

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by nkassis on Thursday September 15, 2016 @10:21AM (#12506362)
The value of the browser sandbox is often dismissed but it's doing a great job at allowing people to run untrusted code from the web without much thought behind it. I also strongly believe users are much more willing to try websites than download entire app anyways just to see if it's any good.
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by xj9 on Thursday September 15, 2016 @08:58PM (#12511184)
None of those things are tied directly to web technologies.
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by bastawhiz on Thursday September 15, 2016 @09:07PM (#12511220)
Which other platform truly allows you to write software once and deploy it seamlessly to just about every kind of desktop and mobile device in the world?
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by xj9 on Friday September 16, 2016 @05:31AM (#12512813)
The browser has a great deployment story and incredible market penetration, I agree. However, none of that is because of web technologies. Browsers are special because they are everywhere, not because they are good or because JS+CSS+HTML is a special magic sauce that nobody else can replicate.

We can do better.

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by angryasian on Thursday September 15, 2016 @02:02AM (#12503806)
>Browser apps don't make the cut.

I just don't get this at all. The fact that chromium books and in the past netbooks do so well is for this reason. I can't understand why you wouldn't want browser applications at this point. Outside of write once run anywhere, security and accessibility is another benefit of the browser. We still have a huge issue with the walled garden in the app space. I'm assuming you mean primarily in the mobile space ? I think this is largely due to a failure on Apple and Google's lack of wanting to innovate because they control the app stores.

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by xj9 on Friday September 16, 2016 @05:11AM (#12512763)
I'm talking about performance. Browser applications are very resource intensive. That isn't a problem for rich people in developed countries, but most of the world can't afford to throw hardware at their problems. Besides, do we really think we'll be able to double hardware performance every year ad infinitum? Even Intel has given up on that pipe dream by now.
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by angryasian on Friday September 16, 2016 @12:12PM (#12515025)
Again Ill have to disagree, there were many efforts on delivering laptops for people in third world countries that ran linux and used browser apps primarily. Even chromebooks work fine in most educational spaces in the US.

http://one.laptop.org/

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by forthefuture on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @09:38PM (#12502723)
I can't tell you how happy I'd be if someone made a network of applications you could download and install in under a second that ran in any other language.
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by venuzr on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:54AM (#12503770)
Is there a way to extend a running javascript app without restart. Say I have a Single Page APP (built on React if that matters) and I want to allow third party developers to add Components / modules/ themes/ plugins to a registry. I want to be able to allow end users to choose third party plugins from the registry to extend the capabilities of the SPA.

Is this possible? If so, is there any guidance on how to achieve this?

Thanks

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by icebraining on Thursday September 15, 2016 @02:38AM (#12503917)
Sure it's possible. As an example, Odoo is a full Python webapp "platform", with a core upon which the user can choose and load plugins to add features (from a simple contact list to a full-blown ERP/CRM/accouting/CMS) and extensions to those features.

On the frontend side, when you install a module, it loads the .js file (using a regular <script> tag) which contains a single function. The Odoo core passes its main JS object (the base of the core API) to that function, which then initializes the whole module and uses the Odoo API to configure stuff, setup hooks, etc.

There's no security, though: by design, a module is trusted and can do anything on the platform. I'm not sure if and how one could contain them.

(Disclaimer: I'm a developer working for an Odoo partner, we write modules and host it as a SaaS.)

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by Gaelan on Thursday September 15, 2016 @10:03AM (#12506189)
I don't speak Python, but on the client modules could run in web workers.
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by xj9 on Friday September 16, 2016 @05:14AM (#12512768)
I'm pretty much solo on this, but I'm trying to build something along those lines.[1][2]

[1]: https://www.infinite-automata.com/

[2]: https://gitlab.com/infinite-automata/

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by khedoros on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @11:12PM (#12503091)
Ditto, because most things I use online load in the >10 second range and don't "install" in any meaningful sense of the word.
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by spdustin on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @11:12PM (#12503094)
So, RDP/VNC to a server running a full desktop GUI application with folder redirection to access local files?
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by n00b101 on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @10:30PM (#12502901)
ran in any other language

When you say "language" here, are you referring to the web languages (HTML, JS)?

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by mcav on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @10:58PM (#12503016)
I think they're referring to any non-web language, e.g. if I could host and distribute C apps with the ease of the web. (Getting end-users to actually run and use a program with one click, rather than having to download a binary, run it separately, etc.)
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by imtringued on Thursday September 15, 2016 @08:22AM (#12505451)
Are you thinking of something along the lines of `ceylon run com.example.helloworld/1.0.0`? This command downloads the module if it's not locally available from the remote repository and then runs it to print "Hello, World!".
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by flukus on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @11:21PM (#12503140)
You mean like apt or chocalatey or any other package manager?
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by formula1 on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @11:09PM (#12503080)
I think I understand but anyone should free to correct me. In every single other environment there is little to no distinction between "front end" and "back end". In fact, other than the web, the ui is a library within the language a developer chooses while in the web the scripting language is secondary to the ui.

These concepts may hurt or cripple early developers since html/css is obvious and easy while the concept that globals, scope and the database is in an entirely seperate location seems odd. What makes it worse is that xmlhttp requests arent very kind.

The concept of the single page app and "serverless" architecture seems to be a fools errand to build (or influence big names to build) complex html applications without the need to spend money or wrappers to bridge the gap. Meteor, northwest.js and electron are celebrated for attempting to accomplish these goals.

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by flukus on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @11:19PM (#12503129)
> I think I understand but anyone should free to correct me. In every single other environment there is little to no distinction between "front end" and "back end". In fact, other than the web, the ui is a library within the language a developer chooses while in the web the scripting language is secondary to the ui.

It depends. A desktop application may have a backend, like a central web service to connect to. Even if it doesn't, there is still likely to be a logical separation of layers which may or may not be in different languages (think c++ backend with a c#/xaml front end).

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by formula1 on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @11:54PM (#12503289)
In those situations, does the c++ service render the xaml or provide the c# to execute to provide the xaml? Or does it provide a shared storage/events/peer resolution/info collecting. Usually a server provides something much different than a web server does
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by vizeroth on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:02AM (#12503555)
C#/XAML on the front-end could mean that .Net/WPF is rendering the XAML and wiring up the C#. The C# might do little more than handle events triggered by the user interface and update the user interface in response to events triggered by the back end.

As the potential capabilities in front-end web development increase, the differences between web development and "desktop" software development are reduced, because web developers find themselves facing more and more of the same questions software developers have always faced when dealing with distributed software architectures at scale.

Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by formula1 on Thursday September 15, 2016 @12:44PM (#12507649)
My point exactly. Spas are going in that direction. "Firebase" allows them to be "serverless" sincebthey have a shared database to write to and read from
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by flukus on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:04AM (#12503564)
It's more like how html/js work in a SPA. The difference being that the backend may be in the same process.
Re:Web2Web Bootstrap by qwtel on Thursday September 15, 2016 @01:36AM (#12503701)
> but still I don't understand why we want to build applications in browsers

because that's where people's attention is.

where people's attention is, is where apps are going to be built, with whatever is there to build them.

if you think javascript is bad, get ready for SnapchatScript (that's not an actual project, but it all too easily could be, and something like it will be an actual project, some day)