Debit card gets stolen - All my money is taken out of my bank. I now cannot pay my rent or buy groceries. I tell bank, and they start an investigation. Maybe in 90 days I get my money back.

Never ever use a debit online. In fact, don't use in person. Debit cards are fine for ATM to get cash, for anything else use CC. (Plus CC gives you 2% cash back if you shop wise, that is huge).

Not true - if you report fraudulent charges the money must be returned to your account within 10 days until the investigation is concluded according to federal law. Many banks will return the money much immediately as well - if yours doesn't, get a new bank.

Visa and Mastercard, who control 100% of the debit card processing in the US, both have 0-liability policies on debit cards, and as the payment processors, they have required banks to follow suit, and to follow an immediate refund policy on fraud as well.

Please tell me why I would use Debit again? Remember I also lose the 2% cashback I get on my credit, on top of my bank account being drained for 10 days and perhaps my mortgage payment bouncing if I didn't catch it in time.

If your debit card is branded Visa/MC, the bank is required to issue an "immediate" (usually "overnight") refund while investigated.

I don't have time to mess with that. Use credit.

What bank took 90 days to refund fraudulent purchases? I'd like to know to avoid them forever.

(It's true that using a debit card means whatever checking account you used could get zeroed out; it's probably a good idea just to open a second account to use for online stuff, if you don't already have an account that serves a similar purpose).

However, lot's of banks make it really easy to overdraw funds when using a debit card. In particular the ordering of transactions can cause you to overdraw (consider charge/refund/charge when a mistake was made; the bank could order it charge/charge/refund and you are now potentially overdrawn despite no day ending with you having a negative balance).

In particular, my past experience with Chase is that they pull crappy stuff like this all the time, nickel-and-dime-you with charges and then act surprised when you close all of your accounts with them.

Have you been asking them to reverse charges? Any time I have any trouble with any account ever, I always say "can you check if this generated any overdraft charges, and if so, can you reverse them"; it seems to work.

The point was that my experience with Chase sans fraudulent charges makes me believe that it would take months to see the money in the days before it was illegal for them to do so.

Since you mentioned Citibank, I've never banked with them, but I did have a visa with them back in college. I was young so only had the card for 18 months, but I'd never had a single late payment when a bill got put in the wrong mailbox in my dorm. By the time I got it, it was 2 days before it was due. I called up Citi (2 days before the due date) and asked them if they could waive the late fee/interest provided it was posted the following day. The answer was no and they had an additional fee (which they also wouldn't waive) for doing a bank transfer, which would save me from the late fee. I told the I'd do that and to please close the account. Asking to close the account got me to talk to his manager, but they didn't bend on any of the fees.

I've had much better customer experience with credit cards from Discover, American Express and (somewhat ironically given my banking story) Chase.

Also many people (like me) don't have good enough credit to get a fancy-pants 2% back credit card.

I personally use a Simple card for spending and only transfer spending money to it weekly - helps keep spending in check and limits my losses if it were lost / stolen. I've been using a method like that for several years and avoiding credit cards as much as possible and I'm now very close to being completely out of debt, which never would have happened if I continued to rely on my own self-will to not overspend on a credit card.

The first rule of using credit cards for fun and profit is to never carry a balance. Ever.

Now, there is an exception to this rule, on the following conditions (all must apply):

1. You do not pay any interest (yes, possible, many cards have promotions, especially store/brand cards)

2. The purchase is for a very long-term item, like major electronic appliance or a alike, that you will be using for several years at least.

3. Due to some circumstances you couldn't foresee you could not save for the purchase upfront and you absolutely need it right now - e.g., you refrigerator suddenly died and you need a new one ASAP.

4. You know and calculated the monthly payment which allows you to pay off the whole sum in a year or less (and of course before promotional no-interest period expires), and this monthly payment is less than what you would be able to save if (3) did not apply. If this rule is not true, you can not afford it, look for a cheaper alternative. Also, never pay just a minimum payment, this is a trap.

Credit card balance is a loan, and these rules are a way to make it into a cheap loan. But be careful - it's like a can of gasoline, can be very handy to get you into places you want to be if you handle it right, but handle it wrong and you can end up badly burned or worse.

If you follow these rules, you can use credit card with relative safety, as even if you overspend one month, you'll have to cut back next month to pay for it. Also improves your credit score :) But if you notice you can't use it without carrying a balance - don't use it at all.

5. You refrain from further transactions with that card, since your grace period is gone and new purchases will immediately accrue interest.

(Although I suppose you could operate in an different paradigm where you make payments as frequently as possible with most all of your spending money, and then new purchases on the card are just effectively taking away from that payment)

FWIW it feels like the additional complexity of those offers coupled with the relaxing of standard payment behavior is a great way to trip people up.

That was literally my entire point :-)

I have no doubt that many people have this figured out, but my point is that 'use your credit card for everything always' isn't necessarily good advice for everyone.

Personally, not having things like Simple around for the ~20 years I've been living on my own, I already have a system of budgeting (Python+SQLite for the last few years) and zero impulse buying habits outside a greasy lunch from my favorite food cart now and then.

So for me, putting mortgage, utils, and food on the CC and pay it off with my first check of the month works just fine. And I don't have to switch financial providers.

Especially hesitant seeing they're owned by a multinational bank with a dubious history. My local CU seems much more approachable and personable, despite Simple's trendy "human" branding.

This is why I have a second checking account that I transfer money to from my primary checking every few days to match the current credit card balance. That way, my primary checking always contains money free of credit card obligation. (Obviously, I then pay off the statement balance from this account every month.)

In the early days (1960s/1970s), credit card companies welcomed (perhaps even sponsored? I don't remember) the legislated responsibility for risk because it encouraged the uptake of credit cards.

Nowadays, of course, almost everyone has a card and almost every merchant needs to take them. So the card cartels were able to shift part of the burden onto the merchants, and in particular the smaller ones. But not all of it.

Banks managed to evade most of the credit card rules in debit cards. Debit cards are a MUCH better deal for banks (they don't incur interest -- except for overdraw fees, but they also don't carry ANY of the protections credit cards do).

> Never ever use a debit online. In fact, don't use in person. Debit cards are fine for ATM to get cash, for anything else use CC. (Plus CC gives you 2% cash back if you shop wise, that is huge).

As an alternative: if you can get a credit card at all, just get one. You don't need to worry about "benefits" (cash rebates, miles or whatever, just get one that doesn't charge you an annual fee.

When you buy something online or swipe, send the CC come any a check that same day. There's no rule saying you have to pay them only when you get a bill. If you do this you'll never accrue interest.

Having to write out checks daily kind of defeats the purpose of using a credit card instead of a checkbook.