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Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by guard-of-terra on Friday September 09, 2016 @05:21AM (#12460612)
"why there are no flats of reasonable size, for a reasonable price!"

If there's demand, won't there be supply eventually?

If people will start paying premium for reasonable size flats while leaving some smaller units unoccupied, market will surely correct itself. It's true that for some time market might be skewed toward wrong sizes, but you don't have to ban anything outright to prevent it, some soft regulations might be sufficient.

Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by pjc50 on Friday September 09, 2016 @07:35AM (#12461187)
"In the long run, we're all dead" -- JM Keynes

These are buildings we're talking about. A city can get stuck with the wrong size units for a very long time. There's a reason things like the Parker-Morris space standards were developed, and they recommended 30m^2 for single occupancy dwellings in the UK in 1961.

The 220ft^2 apartments are 20.5m^2, not very large at all. The really tiny ones have communal shared cooking areas, which have the potential to be a social problem.

I think people are terrified of some kind of Stand on Zanzibar future where they're economically constrained into smaller and smaller spaces, and this is one way to push back.

Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by akgerber on Friday September 09, 2016 @11:42AM (#12463230)
In practice, cities with a lot of single people and a lot of large units just result in a lot of roommate situations— which many people like, but many others don't.

And roommates can pretty much always outbid families for housing.

Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by sokoloff on Friday September 09, 2016 @07:56AM (#12461316)
In a world of ever-growing population, I think you're economically constrained to smaller and smaller spaces or farther away (or otherwise less valuable) spaces. Pushing back on smaller spaces just changes the variables by which housing will be allocated economically.
Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by guard-of-terra on Friday September 09, 2016 @08:03AM (#12461364)
Cities only take a small fraction of land. Growing population doesn't really matters here; (un)willingless to build does.
Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by sokoloff on Friday September 09, 2016 @09:00AM (#12461715)
IMO, unwillingness to live farther out on that large fraction of land that isn't the city is a bigger issue.
Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by guard-of-terra on Friday September 09, 2016 @09:10AM (#12461793)
Why is it an issue? Why not let people live where they want to live and just build up?
Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by sokoloff on Friday September 09, 2016 @10:46AM (#12462690)
It seems to be an issue only in that people seem to want in a certain place but not pay the prevailing rent to do so. If they're willing to pay the prevailing rent, there is no issue.

In a neighborhood like mine (75% SFR, 25% MFR free-standing homes in West Cambridge), you can bet that I'll object to zoning changes that would allow "just building up". I don't need the noise, traffic, additional pressures on the school system, nor do I want to live in a mid-rise and high-rise district. If I did, I'd have bought in one...

Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by guard-of-terra on Friday September 09, 2016 @02:23PM (#12464797)
First of all, what's "prevailing rent" now would be "ridiculously expensive" few years back. That's lack of supply skewing market.

There should be other options than building in your backyard. Find underused places and build up there. The biggest problem is what to build and how: it's amazingly easy to screw this one up (too sparse? too dense? too high? too low?)

Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by sokoloff on Friday September 09, 2016 @07:18PM (#12466719)
One man's "lack of supply" is another man's "uptick in demand" skewing the market.

You can't simply conclude it's one xor the other.

Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by guard-of-terra on Saturday September 10, 2016 @07:10AM (#12468676)
uptick in demand should be met with uptick in supply.
Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by Swizec on Friday September 09, 2016 @05:41AM (#12460698)
Yes and no. Activation energy to build a new house with bigger units, or to merge existing units by tearing down walls, is exponentially higher than the activation energy needed to split a big unit into two small units.

The problem you run into is that even people who have the money, can't find anything to buy or rent, and zoning laws or other types of limitations, prevent fixing the problem by increasing supply.

Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by guard-of-terra on Friday September 09, 2016 @06:39AM (#12460919)
It seems that you're arguing that zoning can fix some problems created by zoning in the first place.

When the real solution to this problem, as to many others, is increasing supply.

Re:How Seattle Killed Micro-Housing by sokoloff on Friday September 09, 2016 @07:59AM (#12461341)
Splitting a big unit into smaller units often creates problems of egress means (for fire safety) and figuring out what to do with storage space that may not be evenly distributed throughout the house. Joining existing units rarely creates that type of problem.

And of course, nothing about that project is "exponential".