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Re:Net Neutrality: Toward a Stupid Internet by pyre on Tuesday April 06, 2010 @08:24PM (#1246059)
> Were it not for net neutrality, a start-up ISP might compete against Comcast by configuring its fledgling network to favor Bit Torrent’s peer-to-peer data packets, thereby earning it the business of serious movie downloaders without having to match or exceed Comcast in expensive infrastructure.

Really? If someone advertised their ISP as 'BitTorrent-friendly' they would have to contend with the MPAA, RIAA, BSA, etc trying to sue their company back into the stone-age.

> If an ISP were left alone to manage the transmission of data packets across its property, it could profitably improve the speed of its network, it could profit from charging more for more bandwidth consumption, and it could profit from providing special services to certain customers, such as smoothly streaming high-definition video feeds. But because none of these things is possible under net neutrality’s rules, the property of Internet service providers is worth considerably less to them in terms of its profit potential. Accordingly, their incentive to expand and improve the infrastructure on which the Internet relies is greatly diminished.

The government poured billions into the country's major ISPs to 'upgrade infrastructure' and there was little to no return on that investment. Infrastructure was not upgraded and we are now at a point where ISPs are trying to claim that their networks can no longer handle capacity, so they are forced to do filtering and 'QoS.' Where did all of that money go? Shouldn't the free market have allowed the ISPs to use that money to improve their networks so that they could reap larger rewards from those better built networks?

The problem with trying to treat Internet Service Providers as some sort of 'free market' is that it isn't. There are huge barriers to entry in the market, and well-established incumbents. Most places in the USA only have 1 or 2 choices for internet service. How is this in any way a 'free market' that the government should say out of? In fact, the governments created this mess in the first place by creating phone company and cable company monopolies. Now these telcos preach about how 'the market should be free' just because they have a huge advantage (i.e. established customers and deep-pockets) against any possible competitors. Which is a hypocritical stance seeing as they are where they are today due to government-granted monopolies.

tl;dr The ISP business model:

  1. Get the government to give you a lead in the market through a monopoly
  2. Grow your business by leaps and bounds during this monopoly period
  3. Government opens market
  4. Complain that government intervention in the market is evil and lobby
     against the government helping out any potential competitors
Re:Net Neutrality: Toward a Stupid Internet by dantheman on Tuesday April 06, 2010 @08:31PM (#1246073)
So it seems your problem is with the initial government intervention? So in order to fix that we need more?
Re:Net Neutrality: Toward a Stupid Internet by pyre on Tuesday April 06, 2010 @08:39PM (#1246087)
I'm not really offering solutions. I'm pointing out the lack of a decent evaluation of how we got here and how we can fix it. Almost all net neutrality discussions are people that want to prevent large ISPs from enacting draconian restrictions on their networks vs the people that don't want any government regulation of anything. There doesn't seem to be much constructive discussion. Just people taking traditional 'liberal-vs-conservative' positions and digging in to duke it out on the canned talking points that traditionally follow.

The people that say "networks are private property and I don't want no government in my private property" are forgetting that most of those networks were built during periods of guaranteed profits (AT&T) or just regional monopolies (cable companies). It's not like these companies were little mom-n-pop shops that were built from nothing with no help from anyone, and now the 'big bad government' is coming in to kill them off by helping their competitors. These companies where weened off the government's teat.

The people that want to bring in the government to restrict the internet are forgetting that there is a whole can of worms that will be opened if the government starts getting their hands into the internet. Sure it could be just 'net neutrality' regulation now, but what you picture as what 'net neutrality' should be will not be what it looks like once an actual bill gets passed. Not to mention all the attempts to tack on 'child porn' filtering and crap (possibly creating some 'Internet Filter Czar' position in the Executive Branch).

Even solutions like: "the internet should be like the highways; built and run with tax-payer money." So the government now runs the major backbones of the internet in the US. This means:

  1. Companies can easily become ISPs by hooking into
     the backbone at reasonable rates
  2. Congress will be salivating to pass bills to put filters
     on these backbones to 'protect the children.'
  3. The networks will be less secure as routers, servers,
     etc are administered by incompetent administrators that
     only have their positions because they know how to play
     the government bureaucracy politicking games better than
     more technically skilled colleagues.
The average consumer is stuck between a rock (the government) and a hard place (large corporations with vested interests). Neither solution is particularly palatable, and it's naive to say that one solution or the other will save us from all the evil in the world.
Re:Net Neutrality: Toward a Stupid Internet by jquery on Tuesday April 06, 2010 @09:39PM (#1246179)
I'll take large corporations with vested interests over the government. At least those interests are maintaining a profit and answering to the market. I can pick between a few different COMPETING mega-corps (if they are a monopoly, break them up via anti-trust). With the government I will have no choices and I can see them chomping at the bit to take away liberty "for the children."
Re:Net Neutrality: Toward a Stupid Internet by pyre on Tuesday April 06, 2010 @10:51PM (#1246322)
The thing is that you're buying into the false dichotomy of the Net Neutrality debate. It's not an all-or-nothing prospect. Rather than framing the question in terms of, "who should control our internet," we should be asking, "how can we fix the current situation." In your post, you make an excellent suggestion, anti-trust. The only issue with that, is that we've proven in recent years that the power of the corporation extends well into the government, and most anti-trust attempts end up as not much more than slaps on the wrist.
Re:Net Neutrality: Toward a Stupid Internet by hristov on Tuesday April 06, 2010 @08:50PM (#1246104)
No what we need to do is enforce the terms on which that initial government intervention happened. And that is that in return for the government granting you monopolies subsidies and a lot of rights you agree to promote the public interest.
Re:Net Neutrality: Toward a Stupid Internet by doron on Tuesday April 06, 2010 @08:35PM (#1246080)
Limiting what lobbyist and special interest group can squeeze out of government should give a fair shake.