Does it work to outright say "It's not a date, I just want to talk to you"? Or does it have the opposite effect and make the askee more wary that the asker may, in fact, take it as a date?

I can't answer so much on generalities on this one, as it probably depends on the the person. I've personally had people say this in different circumstances (not always work), and sometimes it is believable and sometimes not. Thing is that I didn't necessarily think along those lines until they brought it up.

I'd say if she seems to be really uneasy (and you might not tell, most women will try to just be polite), you can try adding it in. Probably unnecessary if you've put the why's of it upfront, though. If she says no, you can always add a little more about what you wanted to talk about, and tell them the offer is open if she'd like. Well, in your own words, and using simlar language as you would with any other coworker and stuff.

I will suggest that saying it is not a date is problematic. It is more effective to signal this is specifically work related in some other manner, like saying you want to discuss X project over coffee. Affirm it is work related. Don't reference dating at all.

Give the work meetings a proper name (eg 1:1) that everyone can use to designate the meetings as work related, and then it alleviates ambiguity.

This is what annoys me. With a male colleague I don't have to size my words or rethink too much what to say to ask for a coffee and a chat about work. Even if you have the best intentions you end up having difficulties to express something that should be pretty straight forward. IMHO that's the difference that makes so hard to treat women as any other colleague.

This works the other way around as well. I can ask a male coworker for coffee, and suddenly he thinks I'm interested. It gets weird. Same sorts of things happens with guys I thought were just a friend - dating was the furthest from my mind.

If I were to speculate, I think some of this has to do with the way we treat dating culture and flirting - lots of hidden meanings and things that aren't/shouldn't be said instead of simply being upfront about intentions. If some of the courtship ritual were changed, I think there would be less ambiguity. I also think this has a good deal to do with culture and the messages we are taught growing up (for example, women being taught they should be suspicious of men's intentions, even though most men aren't assholes in that way).

In a way, your expressed difficulties are precisely the problem.

I would say that the problem is the overprotective treatment women have lately but maybe that's a naive thought of mine (since I can't be fully in the position of a woman).

Or maybe it is just a complicated situation that we haven't solved yet because women pursuing careers in large numbers is a new-ish thing in the world:

http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-gray-zon...

I read your post when it was around here in HN and a few more. I think you are part of - what I think is a minority - of women that don't agree with everything that carries the flag of feminism and actually discern if a particular thing is good or bad for the sake of women.

Focus on the topic, I don't know if that grey area can be solved any time. Whereas there are feelings there will be people incapable of control them. And I'm not talking only about romantic feelings, I'm talking also about fears, insecurities, pride... we aren't taught to manage them if it is not done by our parents and that's something that doesn't seem to be changed any close in the future. So, for example, there always be guys that will misinterpret women that are just simply being nice to them and women fearing or feeling being left out of the group when there is just the common behaviour between guys.

It will never be fully solved, but cultural norms can change in a way that makes it a lot easier than it is currently. I believe that right now, it is so normal for men and women to only really talk if they are looking for a hookup that it creates a highly charged atmosphere anytime that rule is broken.

I have read articles about the problems created when men from countries where the veil is normal move to countries where it is not. For such men, who have lived their whole lives in a culture where women are covered from head to toe in public, it is a shocking level of nudity to see women with bare faces and exposed hair and bare arms, etc. For them, it is also highly sexually charged and they stare or make inappropriate sexual advances.

Western men are not shocked by seeing a woman's face in public and it does not strike them as inherently sexually charged. Yet, even western men (and women) tend to find it weirdly over intimate to really talk with members of the opposite sex and both men and women tend to err on the side of thinking it equates to being hit on. That piece can absolutely be changed so that it is much more normal to talk with people, regardless of gender, and not default to thinking it must be an expression of romantic interest.

There's nothing I can argue about what you have said. I would love to see that change, I don't have any special desire of making women uncomfortable at their workplace and even less to feel myself uncomfortable around them. I would gladly put on practise any new idea on that purpose but many of the things I've seen lately don't look like they have that purpose or go beyond that, making us men to feel "threatened" (maybe that's no the right word but I think you get the idea).

I get that this is something people find threatening and that a lot of what gets written is real blamey and accusatory. I get that men get framed as the bad guy.

I have literally spent my entire life working out another answer. I try to blog about that. I don't get much attention.

I think I have something unique to offer in that regard. I would sincerely appreciate it if I got more comments and I got promoted more by people in some way. Currently, it is mostly me posting my own writing and people largely ignore it.

If you want to see more constructive discussion and the spreading of the idea that, yes, things need to change without the subtext of because men are all rapey bastards and assholes, please consider leaving comments on my blog and sharing links to things you agree with on it.

Here is what I happened to have just finished writing when I saw your comment here, which I think I probably won't bother to post to HN because I am so frustrated with being ignored and with other aspects of doing that:

http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2016/09/change.html

Have a great day.

Or just go freaking have a coffee without overthinking the whole thing and finding 1001 ways that a conversation over coffee could be misinterpreted as god knows what... Christ people need to chill /rant.

I only overthink it because of the many times I just went and talked to a man only to have it lead to serious weirdness.

I wish it weren't necessary. Perhaps someday it won't be.

In today's climate, I would err on the side of caution. Being naively honest and straightforward can very easily be the worst possible approach, if you are unlucky.

I think it also depends on where you work. In my company it is very common to get coffee. Team's and groups regularly take coffee breaks or meet for coffee to touch base. I do agree generally though it could be misconstrued.

Most definitely. It being common makes it much less likely to be misinterpreted, for sure.