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Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by tdfx on Thursday September 08, 2016 @01:30AM (#12450509)
I think the other poster's argument is that the price of the basics will be artificially inflated as those sellers know that low income/basic income people have additional money to spend on required items. The price of a penthouse apartment will not increase, but a slumlord that knows the government will be mailing checks to everyone would certainly have no qualms with raising the rent by a few hundred dollars to accommodate the extra income he knows his tenants have available.

EDIT: To add to this, it's worth pointing out that many corner stores in low income neighborhoods already take advantage of peoples' lack of access to easy transportation to charge unusually high prices for common convenience store items. It's already more expensive to be poor, and I think basic income would just increase the predatory practices that are already happening.

Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by nikdaheratik on Thursday September 08, 2016 @02:17AM (#12450681)
I agree that it's hard to say what would happen with regards to rent seekers, but corner stores aren't in the same situation. Their increased costs are either due to the rents being increased by the person who owns the building, or the simple fact that they do not have economies of scale so they end up with higher prices on the items that don't expire quickly in order to make a profit as they won't make much off of gasoline or milk, for example.

There are plenty of discount stores that are working their way in, e.g. Dollar General, Family Dollar, but they don't have control over the rents either and in alot of larger cities they also are facing opposition from the small businesses that would be out of business since they would have no chance of competing on price at that point.

Whether having every small bodega or other small retail shop replaced by 7-11, Dollar General, Family Dollar, etc. and yet another avenue for access to the middle class shutdown is worth the affordable prices for everyone else is debatable. I can see both sides of this anyways.

Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by guard-of-terra on Thursday September 08, 2016 @03:19AM (#12450921)
Why would people stay in expensive slums when they can e.g. move to countryside and live there for a fraction of those money on basic income?

I think predatory practices will decrease because people will be voting with their feet, no longer constrained by where they live.

Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by douche on Thursday September 08, 2016 @08:34AM (#12452370)
One of the most attractive aspects of basic income is exactly this. $10000 a year stretches a lot farther out in the boonies than it does in SF or NYC, and if you don't have to be there to work, that opens up a lot of degrees of freedom.
Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by int_19h on Thursday September 08, 2016 @02:30PM (#12455785)
At the same time, it does create potential for severe clustering based on income, possibly resulting "basic income ghettos", with all the problems that entails.
Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by aninhumer on Thursday September 08, 2016 @07:18PM (#12458320)
I don't think this would be a problem. There's no reason for people moving out of cities to cluster anywhere in particular. Housing costs near jobs may remain out of reach for basic income alone, but they should still be much more reasonably aligned with wages, since if people start to get stretched, they can just quit and move away.
Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by int_19h on Saturday September 10, 2016 @07:28PM (#12471371)
> There's no reason for people moving out of cities to cluster anywhere in particular.

Economy of scale. Given fixed size of the UBI check, you want to live where services are cheapest. And services will be cheapest in places where more people are serviced together, because that cuts down on distribution costs and other such overheads.

Also, areas where people who have more money than just UBI live, would have higher prices simply by virtue of there being more money in the local economy. This isn't really dissimilar from the existing arrangement, where rich areas are expensive to live in, and so there's natural geographic segregation. But UBI would boost this into high gear.

To clarify, I am a strong proponent of UBI personally. But I think we should be really careful with these kinds of unintended side effects, and try to anticipate and manage them before they cause a bigger mess than what we're trying to address.

Also, have a look at this: https://medium.com/migration-issues/should-a-universal-basic...

Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by guard-of-terra on Monday September 12, 2016 @11:11AM (#12480348)
Economies of scale have failed. It's official.

Huge retailers today offer worse prices, lower quality and lousy service because they can get away with this, being the only game in town.

At the same time, rent in cities skyrocketed, making low-density and rural places much more affordable.

We now know that economy of scale peters off at some fixed scale.

Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by aninhumer on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @02:07AM (#12485941)
That's about monopolies, not economies of scale. Yes, they often go together, but they don't necessarily have to.
Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by amazon_not on Thursday September 08, 2016 @05:03AM (#12451367)
People are social animals. Not everybody will move even if they were personally better off by moving.

Also not everybody can afford to move.

Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by guard-of-terra on Thursday September 08, 2016 @05:06AM (#12451388)
> can afford to move

Basic income is precisely about "afford" part.

Those who won't move will benefit too because landlords will have to work on retention.

Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by amazon_not on Thursday September 08, 2016 @05:39AM (#12451520)
> Basic income is precisely about "afford" part.

This assumes that basic income either includes an allowance for moving or contains enough of a surplus over basic needs that savings can be accumulated.

Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by guard-of-terra on Thursday September 08, 2016 @07:19AM (#12451953)
I actually think that communities might sponsor your moving on their turf as this will mean you'll spend your BI there for prolonged time.
Re:Japan home to 541,000 young recluses by orangecat on Thursday September 08, 2016 @09:48AM (#12452942)
a slumlord that knows the government will be mailing checks to everyone would certainly have no qualms with raising the rent by a few hundred dollars to accommodate the extra income he knows his tenants have available

He can try, but then he'd lose out to competing landlords who don't raise rents as much (or at all). It's like gas stations; owners know that people are willing to buy almost as much gas at $3/gallon as they are at $2. But when the price of oil falls, they can't just keep charging $3, because their competitors will charge less and take all their customers.