Yeah, I'm not saying they aren't art. They are, and like I said before, I'm excited about the medium. I just don't think there's anything with the intellectual depth or creative virtuosity as Pynchon-yet. It's a young medium with a high bar of entry.

There's no question whether video games are art. We need to move past that false dilemma.

The question is whether individual video games qualify as quality or "good" art.

Unfortunately, I think the answer is generally a "no". But the potential is certainly there. It's a very new medium.

I agree with you, but would also point out that the same is true for movies and books. In the general case, they're not any better off than video games. They've just both had much longer to accumulate classics and genres. You see this starting to happen in video games (walking simulators for example), and it will definitely continue.

I think you just haven't played enough games.

I won't get into any comparisons of books and games, but I can absolutely say that I have played games that, at the very least, can objectively (or as close to objectivity as you can get when discussing art) be considered good art.

So you're saying you have an opinion on which art is better? Not worth discussing IMO. Might as well argue about which religion is correct.

Yes, you can have an opinion on which art is better. You can also argue about which religion is better. If you've never done either, I recommend it some time. Having opinions and forming arguments can be very fulfilling.

I mean, that seems like a kind of important question to me.

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Also, I don't really reject the possibility of there being a fact of the matter as to the aesthetic quality of things.

I don't really affirm it either, and if it is true I'd say it is entirely permissible to have aesthetic preferences that go against the true fact of the matter as to aesthetic quality.

And if it turns out that there is no fact of the matter as to aesthetic quality, then arguments that something is of good aesthetic quality could often be transformed into explanations of why that person has those preferences, which still seems like it could be worth knowing.

So, I think it could make sense to not reject all arguments for a thing being of good aesthetic quality

lots of people have opinions on what art is better. lots of people discuss it. if you don't want to discuss it, don't.