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Re:Is Apple destroying a generation of tech whizzes? by omellet on Monday April 05, 2010 @10:13PM (#1243652)
I loved Gorillas. But Windows ships with .NET, including a C# and VB.Net compiler. I'd rather have hacked on that than BASIC, nostalgia value notwithstanding.
Re:Is Apple destroying a generation of tech whizzes? by jlangenauer on Monday April 05, 2010 @10:35PM (#1243682)
Now yes - as I much prefer Ruby, C++ and a wee bit of Haskell these days. But to learn? Absolutely not. The beauty of BASIC was that everything was simple enough that a 10 year old kid could comprehend it: type in instructions, and run them. No compilers, no CLR, no API calls. All of those things make the barrier to entry too high.

I started out writing things like:

  10 PRINT "Jason"
  20 GOTO 10
The reason why that's so important is that it can be comprehended, and it provides a base to which more knowledge can be added in very small pieces. Once the hypothetical 10-year-old has grasped the above - and there are a few fundamental concepts to grasp in there, they can start adding to that. Say:

  10 FOR I = 1 TO 10
  20 PRINT "Jason"
  30 NEXT
And from there, it's just a matter of learning more and more until you're dealing with abstract syntax trees, NP-hard problems, functional languages, multi-threaded programming and whatever else we get to deal with.

But if that first step is too high, many people will never be able to climb it.

Re:Is Apple destroying a generation of tech whizzes? by ido on Tuesday April 06, 2010 @05:00AM (#1244206)
That's true, but these days most people have always-on broadband internet connections, so prebundling with windows is not as important as it once was.

I don't think something like Processing is any harder to get into than basic was. I started programming with GW-BASIC, LOGO and QBasic myself - the first thing that I thought when I started playing around with Processing is that it is remarkably similar to a modern QBasic.

Re:Is Apple destroying a generation of tech whizzes? by ced on Tuesday April 06, 2010 @01:01AM (#1243891)
Absolutely. I tried teaching Python to teenagers. It turns out that significant whitespace is a hurdle. I would use QBasic if I had to do it again.
Re:Is Apple destroying a generation of tech whizzes? by RyanMcGreal on Monday April 05, 2010 @11:22PM (#1243749)
That's exactly how I learned to program.
Re:Is Apple destroying a generation of tech whizzes? by snprbob86 on Tuesday April 06, 2010 @05:28AM (#1244243)
As far as I know, Windows does not ship with the C# or VB.NET compiler. Both are, however, freely available as part of various downloadable SDKs and their respective Visual Studio Express SKUs.