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Re:College has been oversold (2011) by tptacek on Sunday September 04, 2016 @05:31PM (#12426817)
It's also a regressive policy. It assumes the only cost of attending college is tuition. That's the cost that the middle class is attuned to, but it's probably not the most important thing keeping low-income people out of school: for them, a very important additional concern is opportunity cost. Not everyone has the luxury of forgoing 4 years of income to attend additional school.

It's also the case that the pipeline to college attendance is constructed to reward children brought up under middle class circumstances. Unless you think it's the case that food and shelter insecurity, the requirement to care for and sometimes transport younger siblings, and sometimes total lack of supervision doesn't contribute to poorer school performance.

In that sense, proposals for free college tuition aren't that much different than the (totally, unbelievably, egregiously regressive) tax favoritism we accord home ownership through the mortgage income deduction.

How about we fix childcare and K-12 first?

Re:College has been oversold (2011) by jasode on Sunday September 04, 2016 @06:11PM (#12426964)
>How about we fix childcare and K-12 first?

Well, you already know that the answer to that. Desirable employers don't screen job applicants based on which childcare facility and high school they attended. It's always college that's the focal point. Seems inevitable that the reactionary conversation then gravitates towards fixing college access rather than K-12 quality. (Therefore, it doesn't matter if K-12 is actually the more important thing to fix.) As an example, James Clark of Netscape dropped out of high school[1] but his future employers didn't care because he had a college degree. The college degree overshadows the stigma of being a high school dropout.

If McKinsey Consulting, Goldman Sachs, Google Inc, etc filtered out candidates based on what kind of public libraries the candidate had access to while he grew up, I suppose we'd be having political conversations about "building better public libraries!" so children can compete for jobs.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Clark#Early_life_and_...

Re:College has been oversold (2011) by tptacek on Sunday September 04, 2016 @09:33PM (#12427600)
You're missing my point. I'm saying, if you want to universalize college education to equalize opportunity between children raised in low-income families and children raised in high-income families --- a coherent cause, and one I happen to support --- you need to fix the systemic problems that keep low-income students from attending college, or free tuition will simply be another giveaway the government gives to people who don't need the help.

I'm not arguing against college (I think there are arguments against college as an opportunity equalizer, but I'm not making them). I'm arguing against free tuition for everyone as a vector for getting more low-income people into college.

If you want more low-income people to attend college, fix childcare first, so high-school age students aren't sacrificing class rank to take care of younger siblings and graduating high school into circumstances that demand they immediately find a wage.

Or, if you're dead set on applying pressure at college itself: means-test the benefit, so at least you're not giving billions of dollars away to families making six-figure incomes while families making less than $40,000 are sending their 17-18 year olds to 5 years of sporadic dead-end service industry employment. Because: "college is too expensive" is not the only reason that happens. There are plenty of extremely inexpensive community colleges that are vast improvements over 9 months working at the Sprint Cell Phone Store. But that's where low-income teenagers often end up.

Re:College has been oversold (2011) by rayiner on Sunday September 04, 2016 @06:29PM (#12427028)
> How about we fix childcare and K-12 first?

Free childcare for working families (particularly single mothers) would do so much to lift kids out of poverty.

Re:College has been oversold (2011) by WildUtah on Sunday September 04, 2016 @06:58PM (#12427136)
In European countries where free tuition is taken seriously, stipends for students and subsidized part time work for students fill in the gap of mitigating opportunity costs.

Free college tuition is a start, but you're right that even more investment is needed. College students should be paid by the state to invest in their education and enjoy their carefree student days.

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Mortgage interest deductions are obviously and inexcusably evil policy, of course. They make a bad example for comparison, like holding up someone's politics to Naziism.

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Also, we can't just fix K-12 or child care first and leave everything else aside. Those are complicated issues that will be controversial forever. We do have to improve other things in the meanwhile.

Re:College has been oversold (2011) by tptacek on Sunday September 04, 2016 @09:32PM (#12427597)
Both the mortgage interest deduction and universal free college tuition are expensive benefits that would accrue primarily to the middle and upper classes. I'm not making an argument any more complicated than that.