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Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by Aardwolf on Friday September 02, 2016 @06:31AM (#12412077)
Could they drop openoffice, then rename libreoffice to openoffice? That would be fantastic
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by krylon on Friday September 02, 2016 @07:46AM (#12412332)
I think OpenOffice is a better name than LibreOffice. It rolls of the tongue more smoothly, and it is easier to explain to people. On the other hand LibreOffice has the lion's share of the developers (and probably of the users by now). So a "takeover" of OpenOffice by the LibreOffice project would probably be the best solution at this point (at least as far as I can tell).
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by pbhjpbhj on Friday September 02, 2016 @11:37AM (#12413741)
I'm not entirely sure of the current situation, but ...

If you look they call it "Apache OpenOffice". Previously what we term "OpenOffice" was only called "OpenOffice.org (OOo)", why? Well because there was already a product trademarked and marketed as Open Office and IIRC there was a legal challenge. So OOo was the open version of StarOffice.

Perhaps Sun/Oracle or Apache bought that trademark?

A brief search at USPTO's TESS suggests that the word mark "OpenOffice" is registered to Pathway IP SARL of Luxembourg, whilst Apache have "OpenOffice.org".

So the question is LibreOffice or OpenOffice.org.

I like LibreOffice but then I'm in Western Europe. Someone noted it's poor for India and China due to pronounceability.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by vorg on Saturday September 03, 2016 @01:34AM (#12417906)
If OpenOffice is retired as specified in 7.3(b) in the submission...

> 7.3 There is no active attention to preservation of the trademarks related to Apache OpenOffice. (a) Inappropriate use of Apache and its symbols in names of offerings will be defended when brought to the attention of branding@. (b) Uses of OpenOffice, Open Office, openoffice.org and other similarities without attribution to Apache are not addressed.

...then LibreOffice could start using the OpenOffice brand, e.g. "Libre OpenOffice".

I think Apache giving up the brand like that would create a bad precedent, though. Another of Apache's projects might get forked and renamed by the subset of its PMC that do the programming, who then later claim their brand back using this as a precedent. E.g. Apache Groovy might be cloned by the Grails crowd and renamed the Grails Language, and with the programmer in Groovy's PMC who adequately knows his way around Groovy's codebase joining them. When Apache Groovy has further atrophied, the Grails people could then claim the "Groovy" brand using the "OpenOffice Precedent".

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by TazeTSchnitzel on Friday September 02, 2016 @07:34PM (#12416963)
Oracle used to sell Oracle Open Office, the commercial edition of OpenOffice.org.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by nxzero on Friday September 02, 2016 @07:58AM (#12412389)
>> "it is easier to explain to people"

Which is why "Office for Free" (OfficeFree, oFree, O4F) would be a better non-Linux name. Average user doesn't care if something is "open" they care if it's free.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by jasonkostempski on Friday September 02, 2016 @08:26AM (#12412524)
I think its a bad idea to even use the word "Office" because it sounds like a lame rip-off you'd download from CNet. In fact, Im suprised MS doesnt have a legal issue with it. Thats always bugged me about a lot of OSS projects and vegan dishes, they pick a name based on their competitor instead of something original that doesn't constantly remind the user they're not quite getting the "real thing".
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by jkot on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:18AM (#12413189)
OpenOffice uses name 'office' for 30 years, 5 longer than MS does.

Wiki:

> OpenOffice.org originated as StarOffice, a proprietary office suite developed by German company StarDivision from 1985 on.

> MS office 1.0 released : November 19, 1990[1] Office 1.0

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by brewdad on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:48AM (#12413372)
Maybe that's the naming solution then.

StarOffice*

* The Open and Libre Office Suite

Everyone could write it as *Office to save typing. Then users would simply say the full name. "AsteriskOffice"

Nevermind....

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by toyg on Friday September 02, 2016 @11:27AM (#12413662)
StarOffice has never been fully free, and it even clashes with other trademarks in Japan and other Asian countries. It also had an image problem even before it was open sourced, to the point where it was literally given away for free (at a time when MS Office, Lotus etc were printing money).

It's a dead brand.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by elchief on Friday September 02, 2016 @11:02AM (#12413476)
And maybe rewrite it in C# and call it OctothorpOffice...
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by jasonkostempski on Friday September 02, 2016 @04:21PM (#12415988)
Coctothorp is how I pronounce C# :) That or C++++ because # looks like 4 overlapping +'s which I've always assumed is what they were hinting at.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by labster on Friday September 02, 2016 @05:44PM (#12416500)
If you pronounce it like that, what will the next version be? We don't have a nonathorp. I've always assumed the next version will be C𝄪 (for those of you who are non-musicians, that's a double sharp symbol).
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by Sylos on Friday September 02, 2016 @06:21PM (#12416686)
Your description also helps for musicians whose font just doesn't display that symbol...
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by jasonkostempski on Friday September 02, 2016 @04:26PM (#12416025)
Well then I was totally wrong in this case :) But there are still a lot of instances of software names like that. All things GNU being the worst example, an entire ecosystem tainted with the label "Not Unix".
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by ajmurmann on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:31AM (#12413259)
That's not the public perception.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by SamBam on Friday September 02, 2016 @09:17AM (#12412776)
I'm going to try and use this comparison as often as possible now.

"One of the things that always bugged me about OSS projects and vegan dishes is the evangelizing of their proponents.

"One of the best things about OSS projects and vegan dishes is their excellent documentation."

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by lallysingh on Friday September 02, 2016 @08:35AM (#12412576)
I recall that "Office" was ruled too generic a name to really protect some years ago. Because the bundle is just general stuff you'd use in an office.

Also, it's a terrible name that doesn't say anything, except that it's sold for use in an office.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by drostie on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:21AM (#12413212)
Right, the problem is that the generic term for what you're building is an "office suite." It's almost a cliche for these to have had "office" somewhere in the title; I know "WPS Office" is a thing in some places; I remember WordPerfect being bundled with "Borland Office" which I looked up now and apparently it's "WordPerfect Office" these days... and I have a Zoho account and I believe theirs is also called "Zoho Office." I think there was also something called "EasyOffice" once upon a time.

Apple as usual bucks the trend with iWork, and Google with Docs. There's an active KDE project called Calligra, too, and half of the academic world just uses a piecemeal built around LaTeX. Those names are different, but they don't necessarily say anything, either.

Part of the problem is that there's not a nice simple word to say "simple data-set crunching plus pretty authorship tools for both presentations and long-form documents." These are kind of three very different domains which happen to combine together into reporting information. Perhaps a nice open-source project could be named Rapport due to its community vibe and its linguistic tie to "report", but then again, that sounds like an open-source composition/looping software for anyone looking to spin a sick beat.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by matt4077 on Friday September 02, 2016 @09:31AM (#12412879)
That's actually a pretty good description of OpenOffice.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by cyphar on Saturday September 03, 2016 @11:55AM (#12419646)
> Thats always bugged me about a lot of OSS projects and vegan dishes

OT: A friend of mine recently called me a "software vegan" because of how much I've started to get passionate about free software. I'm not really sure how to feel about that description yet. :P

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by curt15 on Friday September 02, 2016 @08:11AM (#12412452)
Doubt it. I would imagine that many lay users associate "free" with low quality. "Open" on the other hand has positive connotations.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by vertex-four on Friday September 02, 2016 @08:18AM (#12412480)
Hell, in a few years' time, Silicon Valley might finally have made "free" an outright bad thing for some significant group of people.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by wlesieutre on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:04AM (#12413090)
Silicon Valley, where "free" means "don't get used to this because we're selling to google and shutting it down in three months"
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by stephenr on Friday September 02, 2016 @11:06AM (#12413506)
Or it means "we're data mining the fuck out of you, your granny, her cat, and the guy who's banging your wife, so we can deliver you 'relevant' ads"
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by cyphar on Saturday September 03, 2016 @11:54AM (#12419644)
> Average user doesn't care if something is "open" they care if it's free.

The naming "Libre" is important (though maybe we shouldn't be using French as the language to describe the concept of freedom with a single word). It gives the opportunity to explain that not only will Libreoffice not cost you any money, you have freedom while using it. Calling it "Office for Free" is a _very_ bad idea as it will muddy the waters of the meaning of "free software" in the lexicon of people who aren't into technology.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by ptero on Friday September 02, 2016 @07:00AM (#12412164)
This. Name natters. IME 90% of people I know who want to quickly look through a PowerPoint on Linux will install OpenOffice. Even when they hear that libre is the better version 80% of them would stay with oo as it is the "real" oo.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by jsight on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:05AM (#12413104)
Also, 85% of statistics are made up on the spot based upon anecdotal data.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by ajdlinux on Friday September 02, 2016 @07:48AM (#12412337)
I agree in the case of the Windows/OS X environment, where brand awareness of LibreOffice is low, but in the Linux world... my distribution (Debian) doesn't even package OpenOffice, and I don't know any Linux user who uses OOo.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by chengiz on Friday September 02, 2016 @08:06AM (#12412430)
Here's one. Never thought it necessary to change. OO works just fine.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by umanwizard on Friday September 02, 2016 @01:18PM (#12414585)
LibreOffice is original OO, in terms of continuity of development, more so than AOO is.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by keithpeter on Friday September 02, 2016 @02:58PM (#12415348)
And another one to some extent: oOo uses its own font rendering, the LO team (I gather) moved over to using libraries (harfbuzz) available in host OS for font rendering. I seem to have better results on former under some circumstances.

I have not had any round-trip editing problems flitting between the two under Linuxen of various kinds.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by chengiz on Saturday September 03, 2016 @10:17AM (#12419278)
I didnt know this but at a more general level I am reluctant to "upgrade" what's already working fine due to this very fiddling with new stuff which is a common failing of the FOSS model in my experience (people wanting to add shiny things instead of making existing stuff better - Firefox, GNOME etc). This is one of the main reasons I did not migrate to LO.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by jbicha on Monday September 05, 2016 @09:26AM (#12430136)
Are you using a distro from 2010? Because I believe most of the major Linux distros include LIbreOffice as part of the default install.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by chengiz on Wednesday September 14, 2016 @08:32AM (#12496164)
I just checked - the latest I use is centos 7.1 which does have libreoffice already installed, however my daily machine is older and I had to install OO manually there.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by dorfsmay on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:09AM (#12413125)
Wasn't OpenOffice own by Sunacle at some point?

I think that's when a lot of users moves to LibreOffice.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by fosco on Friday September 02, 2016 @09:42AM (#12412964)
ditto
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by mindcrime on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:49AM (#12413381)
and I don't know any Linux user who uses OOo.

Pleased to meet you. Now you know at least one.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by silverwind on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:39AM (#12413311)
So true. For example, when Node.js forked to io.js, even after a year where io.js was clearly a superior product, 90% of developers were still using Node.js. Old habits die hard, I guess.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by criddell on Friday September 02, 2016 @08:50AM (#12412638)
> IME 90% of people I know who want to quickly look through a PowerPoint on Linux will install OpenOffice.

If that's all you need to do, OpenOffice will likely work just fine for you.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by johnhattan on Friday September 02, 2016 @09:15AM (#12412764)
If LO gets the trademark, maybe make the name "OpenOffice" refer to "the stable channel of LibreOffice". Corporate IT and training would likely prefer an office suite that only gets feature-updates every 1-2 years. So make OpenOffice a very stable version that just gets bugfix updates, but then a big feature update every couple of years, ala MS Office.

And LibreOffice could remain for the rest of us who don't mind getting new features every month or so.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by nice__two on Friday September 02, 2016 @11:59AM (#12413916)
That already exists: it's called Collabora Office (https://www.collaboraoffice.com/solutions/collabora-office/) and made by one of the largest contributing firms behind LO (Collabora).
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by chris_wot on Friday September 02, 2016 @08:53PM (#12417188)
I did some work for Collabora for a few months. Those guys are amazing! If you want a commercial support contract for any of the software they develop, just do it. They do a fair price for corporates, believe in open source and thus I found my colleagues were super responsive to paying customers and took a great deal of pride in the quality of their work.

They also actively pushed out their code in usable format I to the main codebase. And they did it frequently. They also got access to documents for testing and performance testing others didn't have access to, so the stuff they pushed out actively helped the project, but because they had support contracts they were able to backport to versions the main developers wouldn't consider.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by fluidcruft on Friday September 02, 2016 @09:38AM (#12412932)
This is probably the best workable solution if the projects were to merge somehow as it preserves the attempted marketing niche of each "name".

I haven't followed this in a long time but I thought Sun/Oracle management of OpenOffice was crux of the problem? I've probably been out of the loop for too long.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by gpvos on Friday September 02, 2016 @12:33PM (#12414249)
That was the problem before it became an Apache project. It should not be a problem anymore.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by lamarkia on Friday September 02, 2016 @02:04PM (#12414914)
Some AOO developers appear to have a superiority complex. It is visible in the discussion.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by jimjag on Friday September 02, 2016 @06:04PM (#12416609)
There are people on both sides that suffer from that condition. It does nothing to improve or further the discussion.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by quantumhobbit on Friday September 02, 2016 @11:47AM (#12413817)
I love it this idea. Make OpenOffice the LTS release for liver office. (I'm going to leave this autocorrect as is because it shows the proble with libre)
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by sandGorgon on Friday September 02, 2016 @09:17AM (#12412778)
+10000

Libreoffice is terrible to pronounce in asia ... and especially in India. I dont know if it is better in other countries (like the multilingual United States). Till today, Libreoffice is the only software that I have said aloud (and on the phone) and people could not remember. I have had people search for "libby office", "libra office", "lee office", etc

Call it anything but Libreoffice.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by coldpie on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:55AM (#12413424)
French is the worst thing to happen to language.

What's that open Nvidia driver called? Novou? Neauveau? Nouveau? Neauvou? Fuck it.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by gpvos on Friday September 02, 2016 @12:35PM (#12414259)
English is way worse than French. It's just that more people are used to it.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by coldpie on Friday September 02, 2016 @01:18PM (#12414583)
English is crummy because of French :P
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by frik on Friday September 02, 2016 @09:30AM (#12412876)
Good idea.

It's like or at least similar to Node.js vs. IO.js. Finally they agreed to use IO.js branch but go with the Node.js name.

So it would be great of LibreOffice would be rebranded to OpenOffice. And it needs an web initiative to compete with GoogleDocs and Office365 - I know there is already some kind of prototype, but make it a high priority project.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by Fej on Friday September 02, 2016 @04:12PM (#12415923)
The cloud initiative seems a lot more important; bring LO/OO into this decade.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by TazeTSchnitzel on Friday September 02, 2016 @07:37PM (#12416972)
> Could they drop openoffice, then rename libreoffice to openoffice? That would be fantastic

Oh, the Document Foundation (which makes LibreOffice) wanted to do that. But Oracle decided to hand OpenOffice.org to the Apache Foundation instead, presumably out of spite.

Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by IANAD on Friday September 02, 2016 @08:02AM (#12412408)
Out of the box thinking but would never fly. Think of all of the releases of LibreOffice that overlap OpenOffice. Support nightmare and users would be confused about the changes.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by marcosdumay on Friday September 02, 2016 @08:14AM (#12412467)
You just do what gcc did. The next OO version is the current LO code, and the project is now managed by the LO developers.
Re:Contemplating the possible retirement of Apache OpenOffice by rch on Friday September 02, 2016 @10:04AM (#12413093)
I thought LO was some flavor of GPL? I'm not sure that would fly with Apache, as it would make the situation even more confusing.