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Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by Tharkun on Thursday September 01, 2016 @12:02PM (#12406382)
> It's not at all clear to me that power generation via solar has anything at all to do with supplying electricity to cars.

Tesla is a battery company that just so happens to also make a couple of cars. When you look at it that way, it makes a lot more sense.

Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by harryh on Thursday September 01, 2016 @12:43PM (#12406773)
This actually makes sense. And perhaps SolarCity will also become a battery company that just so happens to also make solar panels because solar power turns out to be more of a storage problem than generation problem.

You are making me rethink my position a little bit. Thanks!

Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by labster on Thursday September 01, 2016 @03:03PM (#12407985)
Tesla is an energy company that just happens to make cars, batteries, and solar panels. Or so they would like to be.

If you look a the energy industry now, there's an iron triangle, if you will, between fossil fuel extraction, electric utilities, and the automobile industry. Tesla is aiming to replace all three sides with solar, batteries, and electric cars. A person could use Tesla products and, in theory, not interact with the current energy sector of the market at all. Which, if it works, would be some kind of disruption!

Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by forgetsusername on Thursday September 01, 2016 @01:38PM (#12407287)
>Tesla is a battery company

What advantage do they have in battery tech that say, Panasonic (who provides their batteries), doesn't?

Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by abledon on Thursday September 01, 2016 @02:06PM (#12407530)
Tesla will be the owner of the gigafactory, a factory in which Panasonic will own a small portion of the manufacturing space inside. I suppose an advantage here is the willingness for the two companies to work together.
Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by toomuchtodo on Thursday September 01, 2016 @02:14PM (#12407594)
Demand. No one is clamoring to buy Panosonic batteries. They are clamoring to buy Tesla vehicles (which so happen to require quite a few cells).
Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by semi-extrinsic on Thursday September 01, 2016 @03:05PM (#12408000)
Total Tesla sold battery capacity is about 10 GWh. For comparison, Nissan has sold 6 GWh, and Chevrolet has sold 2 GWh. But all are beaten by Toyota, who have sold more than 17 GWh in their hybrid vehicles.

For further comparison, the total capacity of existing pumped hydroelectric storage plants is 740 000 GWh. (This puts plans of battery-based electricity storage in a rather harsh perspective.)

Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by marvin on Friday September 02, 2016 @03:33AM (#12411512)
Do you have a reference for the hydroelectric storage number? Does this include hydroelectric dams without reverse-pumping capability, which still do have the capacity to perform fast grid leveling?
Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by semi-extrinsic on Friday September 02, 2016 @04:00AM (#12411620)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectric...

I believe this number only includes dams with reverse pumping. The global production capacity for all hydroelectric power is much larger, but it's not a widely used number, since you typically don't empty a reservoir due to the lower water having less potential energy.

So this capacity number is a bit theoretical, since you wouldn't use it that way in practice. But then again, so is the capacity number for batteries, since you really want to avoid doing a full discharge.

Annual global hydroelectric production is a more useful number, and is a little more than 4 000 TWh.

Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by marvin on Friday September 02, 2016 @05:00AM (#12411811)
Cool, thanks. I wasn't aware that pumped hydroelectric had this great installed capacity. Those are very big numbers. Of course, it isn't an either/or proposition, since pumped hydroelectric is limited by geography. Battery-supported grid levelling can also be installed locally at each residential solar project, which makes adoption less of a political case.
Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by greglindahl on Friday September 02, 2016 @03:15PM (#12415489)
These things all have different growth rates. You might want to mention those, too.
Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by forgetsusername on Thursday September 01, 2016 @03:11PM (#12408042)
>Demand. No one is clamoring to buy Panosonic batteries

Tesla is.

Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by mr_spothawk on Thursday September 01, 2016 @01:53PM (#12407427)
Government backed/funded manufacturing facilities based in the US
Re:Cash Squeeze at Tesla, SolarCity by seesomesense on Friday September 02, 2016 @09:45PM (#12417305)
"Tesla is a battery company "

That is common misconception. Tesla repackages batteries bought from Panasonic.