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Re:The Undermining of American Charity by rayiner on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @11:07AM (#12398859)
Why should a non-profit pay its employees less than a for-profit company? The labor market is the labor market; the feel-good of working for a non-profit might be a "perk" that justifies a slightly lower salary (like equity in a startup), but it'll only get you so far. Insisting that non-profits pay people less just means they'll get less qualified/motivated people.

(And to the extent that the argument is that you don't need to pay $400k to get a qualified/motivated CEO, then that's true of any company--being non-profit has nothing to do with it.)

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by exelius on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @03:07PM (#12400654)
They shouldn't pay their employees less - that's the point (though they often do because they can).

In many cases, executives at non-profits make MORE than their for-profit counterparts simply because there aren't exactly shareholders, and people who sit on the boards of non-profits tend to be less experienced than corporate board members (often non-profits are seen as "training" for corporate board membership). This is especially common in health care. It's not universally true by any means, but it's common enough to be a real problem.

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by harryh on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @02:32PM (#12400404)
One potential reason is that non-profits do not need employees to be quite as good (or work quite as hard) because they are not (generally) in competition with one other.

A business that operates at 90% of the effectiveness of its competitors is likely to fail completely. A charity that operates at 90% effectiveness will just produce a bit less good work in the world.

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by rayiner on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @03:12PM (#12400699)
That's a good point.
Re:The Undermining of American Charity by lgleason on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @11:10AM (#12398875)
Because they are being funded by tax payers.
Re:The Undermining of American Charity by throwaway729 on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @11:16AM (#12398926)
> Because they are being funded by tax payers

Again, this isn't a reasonable argument. The cost of labor does not magically disappear just because the employer is a non-profit instead of a for-profit. Teachers, clerks, and accountants don't magically cost less when they are paid with tax payer dollars. (Incidentally, administrators -- on average -- do cost substantially less in the non-profit sector.)

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by Retric on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @11:25AM (#12398991)
>Teachers, clerks, and accountants don't magically cost less

Actually, charity's pay people less than market rates in other positions.

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by throwaway729 on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @11:39AM (#12399091)
(edited)

It's not magical, though. And it's not because the charity is "funded by tax payers".

Sometimes the salaries are discounted because the charity can find someone who "believes in the mission" (sound familiar?).

Sometimes the salaries are discounted because that's all the charity can afford. If the charity can't find someone willing to take the pay cut, then it ends up subsisting on below-average performers. See hospitals, for example. If they don't pay market rates for doctors, they probably have sub-par doctors. If your charity can't sell its mission as part of the compensation package, then it has to cough up.

The point is, no one is going to take a pay cut just because, as GP put it, they're "funded by tax payers". Why the hell would anyone take a pay cut just because their job is funded by tax payers instead of by the Gates foundation?

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by rayiner on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @01:26PM (#12399970)
Doctors are a great example. The federal government pay scale for doctors goes above $300k. Pretty much everyone else tops out around half that.
Re:The Undermining of American Charity by Retric on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @01:29PM (#12399998)
Private doctors can make far more than $300k. So, making 300k working for the government does not mean they are making market rates.
Re:The Undermining of American Charity by jhbadger on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @11:28AM (#12399008)
Very few non-profit organizations are "funded by taxpayers". They are not government agencies but corporations not very different from for-profit ones except that they don't make a profit (although as mentioned, they can certainly pay their employees quite well). Non-profits can be funded in a variety of ways, from private donations (as with most charities), or even by selling products or services (so long as they don't make a profit, as many scientific societies do)
Re:The Undermining of American Charity by sliverstorm on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @11:38AM (#12399081)
Tax exempt status is a form of subsidy, paid by everyone who pays taxes.
Re:The Undermining of American Charity by logfromblammo on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:50PM (#12399682)
You are abusing the definitions of words, here.

A tax is an effectively positive tax rate. A subsidy is an effectively negative tax rate. A tax rate which is effectively zero is neither strictly positive nor strictly negative, so is neither tax nor subsidy.

In order to make the argument you seem to be making, you must be holding government revenues from taxes to be constant, which makes tax cuts and tax increases a zero-sum game. If someone is taxed less, someone else must be taxed more. But I do not agree with your assumption that the government seeks to keep its revenue from any one particular tax constant when considering changes to tax law, or that it must necessarily even consider the revenue impact at all.

The goal in this particular case actually seems to be to influence the behavior of those who pay the tax in a particular way, and the revenue is mainly a pleasant (for them) afterthought.

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:04PM (#12399300)
> Tax exempt status is a form of subsidy, paid by everyone who pays taxes.

Tax exempt status may or may not be for any given operation (lots wouldn't pay any, or many, taxes even if they weren't tax exempt), but tax deductibility of donations to an organization is very clearly a form of subsidy, and one which increases with the marginal income tax rate (and thus, with the income) that would be paid by that organization's donors before considering the deduction for their donations.

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by Jtsummers on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:01PM (#12399275)
In exchange for that subsidy, the government isn't (directly) running programs like homeless shelters and food banks. Societal necessities so long as homelessness and poverty remain parts of our society.

Cut the tax break, fine, but then we need the government to intervene and provide assistance for citizens.

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:57PM (#12399747)
> In exchange for that subsidy, the government isn't (directly) running programs like homeless shelters and food banks.

Or, you know, churches.

The idea that the tax subsidy is justified by the fact that subsidized charities are displacing costs that would otherwise need to be born by the government would probably be more supportable if:

(1) tax subsidized charities didn't perform functions that the government is Constitutionally barred from performing (viewing the subsidy as an alternative means of performing government functions, would make subsidizing "charities" to do such barred tasks a way for government to evade its Constitutional limits), and

(2) the tax subsidy were the same for all donors (e.g., a fixed proportion credit) since each dollar given would displace the same amount of government funds no matter who gives it, rather than escalating for wealthier donors.

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:53PM (#12399713)
> Very few non-profit organizations are "funded by taxpayers".

All 501(c)(3) charities are funded by taxpayers by means of the tax subsidy provided by the deductibility of donations to the organization (which is a separate issue from the tax exempt status of the organization itself.)

Tax exempt non-profits that are not charities may or may not be taxpayer funded by some mean, but, the subject of the thread here is charities, not nonprofit organizations more generally.

Re:The Undermining of American Charity by tomjen3 on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @11:37AM (#12399069)
If they pay more than they can get away with, they are wasting money, but if they pay less and get lesser-skilled workers, they are also wasting their money.

Underpaying in a non-for profit assumes that they can still get the same quality worker.