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Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by iconjack on Tuesday August 30, 2016 @11:55PM (#12395921)
I will never, ever vote for anyone who supported the drug war. Yes, that includes you, Hillary.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by Hondor on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:27AM (#12396020)
Sounds like a good idea. If politicians were held accountable for their actions for their whole career, they might actively look for the long term better policies instead of blindly mirroring whatever nutty ideas their current round of voters want.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by pcurve on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:12AM (#12395970)
People's view evolve. It wasn't that long when vast majority of Americans were against gay marriage.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by hyperliner on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @01:13AM (#12396164)
They evolve when it becomes politically convenient.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by wastedhours on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @04:00AM (#12396694)
Overly cynical viewpoint - I know my own views on a whole host of things have changed over the last decade. If we were all held to account for things we believed at other times in our lives/careers we'd never progress as individuals.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by dannypgh on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @09:44AM (#12398210)
Lots of things can be seen as politically convenient, e.g. drumming up fear of Islam and Mexicans. I'd rather a politician that was advocating for a politically convenient positive change than a politically convenient negative one.

Sure, one that consistently advocated for positive change would be best. But have you seen polls about the number of people who believe in witchcraft or support Trump? In the US, we arrive at bad choices because around half of the country believes and supports bad things. We'll have to fix that before we can expect more from democratically elected politicians.

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by jaynos on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @09:44AM (#12398213)
Still better than not evolving.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by duaneb on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:03AM (#12395940)
This kind of thinking helps nothing. If you are outraged, push to change it. If you seriously think the best way to do that is to not vote for Hillary, I'd love to hear your reasoning.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by iconjack on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:18AM (#12395994)
I am outraged by the drug war, therefore I will not vote for a drug warrior. Not sure what else to say.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by LyndsySimon on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @01:00AM (#12396134)
I wouldn't worry about it much - there are a lot of us out there who aren't exactly "single-issue voters", but for whom a single issue can make a candidate completely unpalatable.

For me, that's guns. For you, that's drugs. For many others, it's abortion.

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by hutzlibu on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @05:34AM (#12397096)
Just curious, pro or against guns?

I suppose against, meaning you want a candidat who wants tight regulation?

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by LyndsySimon on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @11:33AM (#12399042)
I was purposefully vague :)

I'm very, very pro-gun.

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by hobs on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:32AM (#12396041)
Last time I checked Clinton promised to move marijuana to schedule II, not do anything like pledge to end the completely pointless war on drugs.

Do you have millions in donations to a campaign or millions of followers to vote for your cause? Then I wouldn't hold your breath "pushing for change" within a campaign on either side of the aisle because your opinion simply doesn't matter to them.

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by rweir on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:58AM (#12396131)
well then lobby to get your electoral system fixed instead of copping out. not voting for Hillary Clinton increases the chances of Trump winning, and who even knows what his actual policy on drugs are?
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by hobs on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @01:08AM (#12396153)
To be clear I was not a Bernie supporter either(since you mention lobbying the electoral system), I just used the MJ example because it was easy and at hand. I do not support Trump either.

By voting for someone I support, I am not voting anyone else into office, that is up to their supporters.

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by SapphireSun on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @01:30AM (#12396224)
That makes sense emotionally, but in reality in FPTP you just enabled the even worse other party. If you want your voice fairly represented, you'll need other voting mechanisms and non-partisan districting mechanisms. Your wish is legitimate, but unfortunately the current system limits your useful actions.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by nitrogen on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @02:10AM (#12396324)
There's no mathematical reason why the two winning parties in FPTP have to be the same two parties forever. It is the media coverage that makes it so, and concerted voting for a single third party could make that party part of a new duopoly.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by SapphireSun on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @08:05PM (#12402360)
Sure, you're right about that. In fact, we may be in an era where that might be possible at the moment (probably in the next election though). However, when a third party is actually viable, you'll know it well before election day.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by ntaetnaenta on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @04:16AM (#12396759)
So vote for the candidate in this election that intends to do away with FPTP.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by wvrvwwwe on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:06AM (#12395949)
You can not vote for Clinton and push to change drug laws, they're not mutually exclusive.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by api on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:24AM (#12396015)
... and Trump, and any major party candidate for the past 75 years.

The unfortunate truth is that it's a democracy and the majority of the voting public still supports the drug war. That support in softening, but very slowly.

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by logfromblammo on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:31PM (#12399527)
No.... it's a constitutionally limited democratic republic. That's supposed to prevent "the majority of the voting public" from mandating stupid laws and forcing the minority to live under them.

As such, place the blame where it belongs: the majority of Democratic and Republican party politicians, who have employed the drug war as a means to preserve or increase their political power, and to distract and propagandize the aforementioned voting public away from any issues of real importance that cannot be solved effectively without doing something unpopular among certain blocs of the electorate.

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @12:33PM (#12399544)
> No.... it's a constitutionally limited democratic republic. That's supposed to prevent "the majority of the voting public" from mandating stupid laws and forcing the minority to live under them.

No, its supposed to stop the majority of the voting public from mandating laws that violate essential liberty and forcing the minority to live under them.

Its not supposed to stop the majority of the voting public from mandating stupid laws, though of course one hopes that stupid laws would, if they fail to be recognized as such before passage, be corrected in short order most of the time.

Though experience would, perhaps, show that to be overly optimistic.

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by logfromblammo on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @01:24PM (#12399956)
It would seem that the issue in dispute is whether a law can be stupid without also violating essential liberty in some way.

I think we can agree that all laws that violate essential liberty are intrinsically stupid.

Let's not examine it too closely, though, lest we uncover that republics may, in fact, be designed to protect the privileges of the land-owning elites from the sheer numbers of the unwashed rabble, and the defense of their essential liberties may only be a beneficial side effect.

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by api on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @02:02PM (#12400203)
You're correct, but unfortunately there is nothing about personal sovereignty over one's own biochemical processes in the constitution. The constitutional also permits the Federal government to enforce laws on interstate commerce, which effectively allows this kind of prohibition even if the states disagree internally.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by logfromblammo on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @05:02PM (#12401452)
The interstate commerce clause has been used as a dumping ground for federal overreach for a long time. It is likely that it was only intended to provide authority sufficient for the federal government to prevent a state like Missouri from treating Colorado cannabis any differently from California cannabis, if either happen to be imported into its jurisdiction. This interpretation is considered obsolete by many federal judges.

Interpreting it such that a cannabis plant grown, harvested, prepared, and consumed entirely within the state of Colorado, exclusively by Colorado persons, may still be subject to federal law is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion. But the prestigious paid professionals still do it.

It took the 18th Amendment to prohibit "the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors...for beverage purposes" at a federal level in 1920. The Volstead Act was able to use that amendment as the basis for its authority. The 21st explicitly repealed it, thus obviating Volstead, which had already been unpopular for years. Note also that consumption was never outlawed. Even so, it was a disaster.

There was no such amendment to authorize prohibition or control of other, non-alcoholic intoxicants for recreational purposes. What happened to the Constitution between 1920 and 1970 that would have allowed Congress to pass another prohibition law like the Volstead Act? Nothing. Nothing at all. Or rather, New Deal politics happened. Federal power expanded without explicit authorization, just because of a temporary confluence between economics and political opportunity.

The various drug war laws are probably not authorized by the commerce clause, just as justices O'Connor and Thomas dissented (Rehnquist concurring with O'Connor) in Gonzales v. Raich [0]. It would seem that, looking also at Wickard v. Filburn [1] and US v. Lopez [2], the SCotUS is not likely to be of any help here. The underlying argument is that "drugs can be sold, therefore there exists an interstate market for them, therefore federal regulations on them are authorized by the commerce clause." Wickard v. Filburn seemed like politically-motivated bullshit to me, but who am I to argue with the precedent?

The laws will, like Volstead, mainly be overturned by the court of popular opinion long before any official federal action occurs.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wickard_v._Filburn [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by dragonwriter on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @05:19PM (#12401572)
> The interstate commerce clause has been used as a dumping ground for federal overreach for a long time. It is likely that it was only intended to provide authority sufficient for the federal government to prevent a state like Missouri from treating Colorado cannabis any differently from California cannabis

That's pretty clearly not the case; the so-called "interstate commerce clause" in Article I, Section 8 is perhaps more accurately the "interstate and foreign commerce clause", and expressly gives Congress the same authority to regulate trade among the states as it does for foreign trade and trade with Indian tribes; it clearly was not intended to be limited to preventing states from erecting protectionist trade barriers (which, in any case, is the focus of the Article I, Section 10, limits on states.)

> It took the 18th Amendment to prohibit "the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors...for beverage purposes" at a federal level in 1920. The Volstead Act was able to use that amendment as the basis for its authority.

The Volstead Act went into effect in 1919, the 18th Amendment was ratified in 1920, and went into effect in 1921. Its clear that Congress -- which proposed the 18th Amendment before passing the Volstead Act, which it did over a Presidential veto -- did not believe that the Amendment was necessary to support the act, though they clearly thought it was desirable (perhaps because it didn't just authorize regulation, it explicitly mandated prohibition.)

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by logfromblammo on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @05:58PM (#12401802)
My objectivity regarding the interstate commerce clause is compromised to the point where I can't really have a rational discussion with anyone who disagrees with my opinion on it. It suffices to say that I am strongly anti-federalist, and excessive coprolalia quickly ensues whenever a strong federalist shows up.

In the most ferrous of ironies, the uniform commercial code--which was separately adopted by all 50 states in almost identical form--is probably the ideal form of legislation to be covered by the probable original intent of the interstate commerce clause, and yet there is no law that federalizes the UCC. Instead, it is used for all manner of laws that have no authorization anywhere else in the constitution.

Thus, anything further I might have to say on the topic is probably not appropriate for HN.

Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by ghshephard on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @04:51AM (#12396903)
People's positions evolve, particularly as better information is available and we become more knowledgable on a subject.
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by ascorbic on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @04:07AM (#12396726)
So that one issue wipes out all others? Do you really have no preference as to whether Trump or Hillary wins?
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by Nursie on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @04:55AM (#12396927)
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Re:Grateful Dead Fan Timothy Tyler Has Been Granted Clemency by cmdrfred on Wednesday August 31, 2016 @08:03AM (#12397624)
My issue is I simply want someone reasonably honest as President. I have no preference as neither candidate exhibits that behavior.