Judge: George Jung, you stand accused of possession of six hundred and sixty pounds of marijuana with intent to distribute. How do you plead? George: Your honor, I'd like to say a few words to the court if I may. Judge: Well, you're gonna have to stop slouching and stand up to address this court, sir. George: [stands] Alright. Well, in all honesty, I don't feel that what I've done is a crime. And I think it's illogical and irresponsible for you to sentence me to prison. Because, when you think about it, what did I really do? I crossed an imaginary line with a bunch of plants. I mean, you say I'm an outlaw, you say I'm a thief, but where's the Christmas dinner for the people on relief? Huh? You say you're looking for someone who's never weak but always strong, to gather flowers constantly whether you are right or wrong, someone to open each and every door, but it ain't me, babe, huh? No, no, no, it ain't me, babe. It ain't me you're looking for, babe. You follow? Judge: Yeah... Gosh, you know, your concepts are really interesting, Mister Jung. George: Thank you. Judge: Unfortunately for you, the line you crossed was real and the plants you brought with you were illegal, so your bail is twenty thousand dollars.
Re:Web Scraping in 2016
by 0xdeadbeefbabe on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @03:49PM
(#12346907)
Yes laws are neat and a reason for attending law school I suppose. I'm of the simpleton opinion that TCP/IP and the other protocols are the law of the net, and you ought to start with those.
One of my favorite scenes from 'Blow':
Re:Web Scraping in 2016
by tedunangst on Tuesday August 23, 2016 @06:25PM
(#12348277)
Excellent news. I'm of the opinion that might makes right is the law of the land, and I'm going to start by buying a bigger gun.
Re:Web Scraping in 2016
by 0xdeadbeefbabe on Wednesday August 24, 2016 @04:08PM
(#12354836)
If you were really of that opinion I think you would hide instead.
The CFAA is a really bad law and creates the network effect lock-in that we all considered a natural part of the web. It doesn't have to be that way -- users should be free to use any browsing appliance they want, including so-called "scrapers".
Big companies like Google not only got their start by flagrantly violating the CFAA, copyright, and privacy laws, but they continue to do so. The moral of the story is hurry up and get big before you get sued or arrested.
There's a long history of ridiculous web scraping rulings based on technical misunderstandings by neophyte judges, including Ticketmaster v. RMG, where infringement was found because the company scraped data out of a page with the Ticketmaster logo on it.
Facebook sued a company called Power Ventures which read out only the user's own data. The founder was found personally liable for $3 million in damages. Facebook did this because they don't want it to be easy for their users to move between social media services. If it's easy, Facebook has to compete on merit instead of just keeping switching costs high. Facebook doesn't like that, so they sue people who make it possible -- and the law says they should win.
We badly need a revised law, but the powers-that-be will strongly oppose it because it would threaten their monopoly over web properties. They continue to flaunt their strategic ignorance of these laws and then take shelter behind them to stop risk from small innovators (i.e., having to compete fair and square).
In the real world, we have a lot of laws that mostly prevent this kind of bad behavior. In cyberspace, the structure is such that most of those laws are not applicable. We need to update and port the pro-small-business logic we have for meatspace companies so that it counts online too. The state of affairs online is really bad.
I want to get a law called the "Consumer Data Freedom Act" passed, which would allow users to access any web property with any non-disruptive browsing device, including custom scrapers that don't impose much more load than a typical user browsing session would.