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Re:On the history and justification of the C programming lan... by nickpsecurity on Thursday August 18, 2016 @07:56PM (#12317108)
"First: No, that's not the point of "worse is better". "

I hear lots of interpretations of it. I could be misremembering. I'll take another look at it. Appreciate the specific points to look into. :)

"Second: I would suspect that there are far more new projects started today in C than there are in COBOL. C is in use (at least sometimes) as a voluntary choice, and COBOL is not."

If we're using that constraint, then Java and PHP are the example with Java for about any kind of app. A lot of people even like Java. They think it's great and hate C. So on and so forth. Yet, the popularity still tells me nothing as I got to watch Java get forced by Sun and others into its position step-by-step with insane amounts of work to get it to match performance and productivity of better-designed languages... partly successful there. It was actually experience of Java IIRC (later C#) that was the reason many people didn't think an OS could be done in a GC'd language. They mentally associated GC'd language with stuff like that. That a small team pulled it off in Oberon with a handful of people at a time porting or extending it is always news to Java developers I meet here.

Lack of context, bad design, meant to replace prior languages for most applications, platform orientation, and massive ecosystem + uptake + tooling make it a better comparison. So, I'll use it and COBOL next time.

Re:On the history and justification of the C programming lan... by AnimalMuppet on Thursday August 18, 2016 @08:21PM (#12317203)
Off topic: Do Enterprise Java and COBOL feel kind of the same to you? I mean, as languages they're completely different, and yet...

Maybe anything that winds up trying to play in that "language for big corporate enterprise software" winds up like that?

Re:On the history and justification of the C programming lan... by nickpsecurity on Thursday August 18, 2016 @08:35PM (#12317241)
Nah, the experiences are extremely different. Old-school GUI's with files locked up in mainframes vs Netbeans with tons of middleware, ANT, etc. Java has all these frameworks, model-driven development with UML, and so on. COBOL is probably strict waterfall with Java shops taking on forms of agile. Huge differences even if I see some superficial similarities.

What they have in common, as with C, is they were pulled or pushed in for ecosystem benefits + marketing then spread and sustained on that bases mostly. So much stuff written in them with so many talent or tools that they're self-perpetuating. I'm claiming most C adoption & entrenchment is the same phenomenon outside embedded or ultra-high-performance applications where use is quite practical. You constrained the COBOL example but I recalled popularity effect applied to Java, too.