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Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by whyenot on Tuesday August 16, 2016 @11:19PM (#12302301)
We already have many, many, many pesticides that do this, but neonicotinoid pesticides are really useful for a couple of reasons:

1. Very low toxicity to mammals. Neonics are used in flea collars, and to kill lice in farm animal bedding materials for this reason. Neonoics are also very safe to apply by human applicators.

2. Neonics are systemic pesticides in plants. They are absorbed into the plant and provide long term protection against insects pests. Less pesticide drift, less danger to applicators, BUT it also gets into floral nectar, causing problems for bees and possibly other insect pollinators.

3. Neonics are cheap. I can buy 5lbs of Marathon 1G, a neonic pesiticde for about $80. Something more targeted, such as Rycar is more than $500 for a similar quantity, and Rycar is not systemic, it has to be applied several times.

There is a move towards more targeted pesticides such as Rycar, Floramite, Kontos, etc. but they are expensive, and in many cases more difficult to use. That's the darn problem. Neonics are terrible for bees, but for agriculture, they are really useful and there is no clear replacement.

Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by Joof on Tuesday August 16, 2016 @11:25PM (#12302333)
Ok, so lets make bees more resistant to Neonics.

:P

Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by mintplant on Wednesday August 17, 2016 @02:07AM (#12302809)
And then force it through the population with a gene drive? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene_drive

I'm sure there won't be any negative consequences ;)

Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by Joof on Friday August 19, 2016 @09:46PM (#12324669)
Impossible! Outside of gene drives (which sound a little dangerous...), I really want to do some simple CRISPR projects (I have a specific idea in mind; although not for hacker news ;). Too bad you need a lab, even if it's probably a good idea to limit hobbyists.
Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by whyenot on Wednesday August 17, 2016 @12:19AM (#12302480)
the non-native bees shipped around the country (US) and that are the primary pollinators in agriculture appear to already be fairly resistant to neonics.
Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by tptacek on Wednesday August 17, 2016 @12:20AM (#12302485)
Honeybees are themselves non-native! They're an introduced species.
Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by mvidal01 on Wednesday August 17, 2016 @03:52PM (#12307824)
Which species of bees are you referring to?
Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by cmdrfred on Wednesday August 17, 2016 @02:38AM (#12302876)
I say bring back nicotine sulfate.
Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by StanislavPetrov on Tuesday August 16, 2016 @11:58PM (#12302423)
>Very low toxicity to mammals.

What is the difference between killing us directly and destroying the food web and ecosystem we depend on to survive?

Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by whyenot on Wednesday August 17, 2016 @12:30AM (#12302530)
* Most of the food crops we depend on both directly and indirectly are grasses and are wind pollinated (corn, wheat, etc.).

* There is no evidence of neonics disrupting food webs or destroying ecosystems. How do you even "destroy" an ecosystem? that doesn't make any sense, at least with an ecologist's definition of "ecosystem."

There has also been a coevolutonary arms race between plants and insect pests going back millions of years and many plants contains chemicals many times worse than any pesticide used on crops.

Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by pvaldes on Wednesday August 17, 2016 @05:05AM (#12303289)
> How do you even "destroy" an ecosystem?

Easy. Wiping the key groups, like top predators or pollinators

In any case, destroying is not the right verb here, "changing" the ecosystem would be a better fit. Often for worse.

> There is no evidence of neonics disrupting food webs

There's plenty of evidence. This article is just one more. No wild bees and other pollinators -> no apples, plums, peaches, pears, onions, lattice, pumpkins, carrots, peas, peanuts, caffe, honey... I think that this qualifies as a case of "food web in trouble".

> Most of the food crops we depend on both directly and indirectly are grasses and are wind pollinated (corn, wheat, etc.)

Yes human diet is mostly based in cereals. The problem is that a lot of areas in N of Europe, Russia USA or South America aren't suitable to temperate or tropical cereals like corn or rice, because weather. Thus they need either spend gas for bringing cereals to the population, or rely on potatoes, apples, cabbages and other crops that stand frost and short summers. The 'big' cereals can be also difficult in desertic or high mountain areas, because they need a lot of water and soil is too poor. Legumes and other desertic crops (fruit tree cacti for example) are awesome in this cases. If you use all the water in culturing lattice, the wild organisms suffer obviously.

Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by tudorw on Wednesday August 17, 2016 @05:23AM (#12303353)
Destroy is fine,lots of ecosystems collapse if you remove one link in the chain, they don't have time to evolve a solution. They just die.
Re:Pesticide link to long-term wild bee decline in 18 year s... by tptacek on Wednesday August 17, 2016 @12:19AM (#12302481)
Can you present any evidence that neonics are destroying the food web? The difference might be "toxicity of legacy pesticides is a real concern, and destruction of the food web from neonics is fictitious."