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Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by superuser2 on Monday August 15, 2016 @06:22PM (#12293947)
You're laughing, but an arts building I worked in had a separate electrical system (color-coded outlets) for A/V equipment in its performance spaces. I'm hazy on the details, but professional systems integrators apparently do believe that some components are sensitive to noise in the electrical supply, and it is useful to separate them from the rest of the electrical devices in a large building.

Google led me to a whitepaper [0] which indicates that the A/V power system's interesting characteristic was probably that its ground is bonded to building ground at exactly one point. Apparently in this design it's undesirable for an A/V system device to accidentally connect to the main building ground or actual "earth," which jives with my experience that a component accidentally plugged into a regular outlet created an unbearable hum in the audio signal (i.e. the grounds were substantially different).

[0] http://www.surgex.com/pdf/PowerGround.pdf

Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by jcrawfordor on Monday August 15, 2016 @10:18PM (#12295099)
In recording studios, you will sometimes find 'technical power' which is delivered on balanced wiring from an isolation transformer. This is rarely seen outside of radio and television studios, though. Many performing arts spaces have a simpler version, of dedicated outlets for power amplifiers that are on an isolation transformer if anything, but usually just a separate run to the main panel - this is mostly just to avoid the ground loop problem, as you mentioned, as well as to avoid certain kinds of noise that amplifiers might pick up.

I doubt that the isolation gained from having one's own pole transformer is any better than what an isolation transformer gets you. You'd still be subject to any noise or trouble in the distribution-level wiring, and at the end of the day I think most of the problematic electrical issues you could have in audio are going to originate in your own house anyway. It's probably much better bang for your buck to put your audio equipment on a nearby isolation transformer, which are not necessarily cheap but certainly don't run in the five figures (or at least not until they get very large).

But with these kinds of audiophiles, bang for your buck isn't what it's about. Having known some audiophile extremists like this, at least in my limited experience, it's just a status symbol.

Edit: As an anecdote about amp noise, while lighting is a pretty big issue most permanent venues have their lighting well-segregated into a central dimmer rack anyway. The most notable time I got an angry noise out of an amplifier is when I accidentally plugged a hydraulic manlift into a poorly labelled amp rack socket. When I went to ascend, the noise from the house speakers made me just about jump out of my skin, to the great amusement of my coworkers.

Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by honkhonkpants on Monday August 15, 2016 @10:24PM (#12295112)
Rarely seen outside of studios and hospitals. I guess people will point and laugh at this but they probably aren't laughing at FDA device safety rules.

"Technical power" in your house is pretty much against all building codes. You need color-coded outlets and warning signs on all outlets and on the entry doors, in a commercial setting where the code allows such wiring. On the other hand, wiring your amps up this way has a certain economy to it; it's actually pretty cheap and effectively solves the problem for a lot less than the $10k (plus ongoing monthly costs of extra power service) cited in this article.

Edit: NEC here: http://www.equitech.com/support/647.html

Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by wlesieutre on Monday August 15, 2016 @10:54PM (#12295228)
Note that this is specifically for a 120V system where instead of a single hot and a neutral, you have two hot wires, each at 60V to ground and running 180 degrees out of phase. Similar to how 240V receptacles are wired in residential.

For commercial buildings, the common layout to run a "computer" circuit with a dedicated ground and neutral, while sharing them between multiple other circuits for general loads. There are a lot of variations on this sort "isolated circuit" setup, and it's pretty much standard practice. I couldn't say how much most computers and other loads actually care that they share a noisy neutral, but I did have one personal experience with a building where an Xbox 360 couldn't get past a game's first loading screen because the power was so dirty.

For some examples, see the options listed on page 2 and wiring diagrams on page 3 here: http://www.electri-cable.com/v/vspfiles/download/Electri-Pak...

Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by mindslight on Monday August 15, 2016 @11:27PM (#12295346)
I'd think the reason it's against the NEC is to avoid surprises during infrequent residential servicing.

You could do the same thing outside of the wall though. But if you're tying the grounds together and feeding equipment that has its own transformer, I don't see much of a point.

I'd also think the FDA safety rules would require it for its failure modes, not power quality. Actual patient isolation is taken care of by the devices themselves.

Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by timpattinson on Monday August 15, 2016 @10:14PM (#12295074)
This is a valid concern - due to not only differing grounds but also the transients/hf noise created from ten- and hundred-KW lighting dimmer systems, audio and lighting power must be kept seperate
Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by engi_nerd on Monday August 15, 2016 @10:52PM (#12295220)
I have personally encountered difficulties in grounding and bonding when different portions of a distributed instrumentation system used "local" grounds on the nearest aircraft structural member as their ground reference. The ground potential from one place to another on the structure of an aircraft in flight can vary wildly. This caused no end of problems (sudden shifts in parameters, dead power supplies, etc).

For performance critical applications, minimize the number of grounds.

Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by DINKDINK on Monday August 15, 2016 @09:48PM (#12294961)
Why not just use a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply)?
Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by LeoPanthera on Monday August 15, 2016 @09:57PM (#12295002)
Even a UPS is probably overkill. A Power Conditioner should be sufficient. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_conditioner
Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by timpattinson on Monday August 15, 2016 @10:12PM (#12295062)
Because some of these venues also run lighting rigs in the order of magnitude of 100KW and probably don't have the space/money/expertise to install a UPS with that power capacity.
Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by TakerofVita on Monday August 15, 2016 @10:32PM (#12295136)
Would lights need to be run on the UPS, or just the audio equipment?
Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by cdcarter on Monday August 15, 2016 @11:33PM (#12295366)
A single loudspeaker in a line array can draw up to 24A at 240V [0]. Even a very small rig of 6 speakers would require over 30kw. A 50kw UPS [1] can be purchases for a very affordable $25,000 in 2016 [2]. When building a performance art venue in 1960 or today, a technical ground is a much more suitable option than a UPS.

[0]: http://www.meyersound.com/sites/default/files/leo-m_ds_a2.pd...

[1]: http://powerquality.eaton.com/Products-services/Backup-Power...

[2]: https://store.fgcupssystems.com/products/eaton-93pm-50kw-480...

Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by metaphor on Monday August 15, 2016 @10:11PM (#12295059)
Audiophile Mistake #1: Proposing a sensible solution to a problem which doesn't exist.
Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by matwood on Monday August 15, 2016 @10:42PM (#12295186)
Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by LeoPanthera on Monday August 15, 2016 @11:52PM (#12295421)
It's not completely outlandish to imagine that noisy power could cause noise in the audio output of an amplifier.

I would hope that any good quality amp would filter the incoming power, though.

Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by Johnythree on Tuesday August 16, 2016 @04:08AM (#12296140)
Yes, if it does, it's because of crappy (eg cheap) design. Any amplifier designer should assume that the mains power is very, very noisy.
Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by superuser2 on Monday August 15, 2016 @11:57PM (#12295442)
I'm guessing that good quality amps for the install market are designed to be part of system where these concerns are taken into account.
Re:Japanese Audiophiles Install $10k Personal Electricity Ut... by mirimir on Monday August 15, 2016 @10:07PM (#12295049)
My thought, exactly.

With a dual-conversion UPS, I don't believe that there'll be any noise from the power grid.