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Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by Bartweiss on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @09:42AM (#12261622)
> The DNC isn't even a government, wasn't the whole point of WikiLeaks to hold governments and their leaders accountable?

I agree that this was personally motivated, but that's a pretty laughable claim. A major political institution was attempting to manipulate an election for the US Presidency, but it's outside Wikileaks' purview because the DNC isn't technically part of the government?

Vetting and bias are topics worth discussing, but when political officials using 'neutral' funds try to reshape an election, I'm quite happy to label that a "government accountability" issue.

Edit: removed "state funds" reference, I had misunderstood part of FECA. I don't think it changes the point.

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by SmellTheGlove on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @09:46AM (#12261655)
Given how much money goes into an election, this level of collusion should piss you off at least a little if you supported Bernie Sanders, right? It's not an outright fix, but if the deck was stacked, any donations to candidates other than Hillary Clinton were sort of like pissing into the ocean. Maybe a little less satisfying than that.

I agree that it was personally motivated. I just don't care. I want to know if our major media outlets are coordinating with specific campaigns, or if campaign finance laws are being broken in general. I'd love to see those Goldman Sachs speeches that Hillary is looking into for 6 months now.

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by dmschulman on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @10:22AM (#12261944)
It's not collusion, the decisions are all being made within the party. It's wrong and unfortunate the way Sanders was treated by the DNC (I supported and donate to Sanders), but it's the DNC's call to operate however they want to operate.
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by Bartweiss on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @12:31PM (#12262960)
It's not really, though. Or at least, what the DNC did wasn't just operating how they chose.

The DNC portrayed itself as a candidate-agnostic intermediary that wanted to see a Democrat win the election. They fundraised, did press coverage, and organized events using that claim. They were repeatedly accused of being biased, and they denied the accusations then publicly mocked the accusers for spinning crazy conspiracies.

So no, the DNC didn't 'rig' the primary, they didn't have the power. But everyone who donated to the DNC has a right to be angry. The DNC is free to operate as they choose, but they lied about how they operate, and took money under those false pretenses. We aren't expected to accept that behavior from companies or charities, and I don't want to accept it from political groups either.

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by eli on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @09:47AM (#12261662)
You are incorrect. DNC is not state funded.
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by fixermark on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @10:10AM (#12261852)
Actually, in several states the two-party system is baked pretty deeply into the state-level laws. Pennsylvania, for example, has a primary system where one has to declare whether one is Democrat, Republican, or Independent, and then must vote on the ballot corresponding to that declaration (with the Independent ballot holding only referendum questions and not any input into the primary process).

Those elections use the state's voting machines and vote security infrastructure. That's functionally equivalent to being state-funded, even if the funding is in terms of human-power and machine use donation and not cash.

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by dmschulman on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @10:29AM (#12262011)
That's a bit of a stretch to reach the conclusion the DNC and RNC are "state funded". Poll workers are volunteers, the machines are bought with taxpayer money but they are used for multiple types elections (from state to federal).
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by fixermark on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @10:56AM (#12262223)
Not all poll workers are volunteers. I'm a majority inspector; I'm state-paid. I'm required to show up for the primaries.
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by dmschulman on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @11:19AM (#12262389)
But you're not a federal employee, that isn't your full time job. That's a responsibility you volunteered to take on, the fact that you get compensated for your time every time there's a primary vote doesn't imply you're an agent of the state, it's not a "functional equivalent".
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by fixermark on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @11:30AM (#12262474)
The fact that I'm compensated means I am not a volunteer. In fact, I'm an elected official. It isn't my full-time job, but that's irrelevant.

The state pays me to assist with the operations of the taxpayer-purchased-and-funded voting machines for the purpose of executing both the Democrat and Republican primary elections (and no other primary elections) on PA primary day. I don't know how that can be not "state-funded."

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by eli on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @11:03AM (#12262277)
Don't be silly. The DNC is not taxpayer funded, the primary election system that all major parties have access to is. The DNC is funded by non-tax-deductible donations.

I drive to work on government supplied roads, but that doesn't mean you have a moral or legal right to hack my company email.

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by jamespo on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @10:50AM (#12262176)
It's not "functionally equivalent" at all
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by dmschulman on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @10:07AM (#12261824)
They're not federally funded, correct
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by vasilipupkin on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @10:47AM (#12262139)
Manipulate an election? What? Firstly, Clinton straight out won more votes then Sanders, secondly, it's absolutely legitimate for leadership of a political party to try to influence who that party nominates as its candidate. It's an organization. Sanders could have run for president as a socialist and nothing was stopping him from doing so.
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by Bartweiss on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @12:40PM (#12263048)
Hang on, I think you're misunderstanding my objection.

Clinton won a majority, so the primary wasn't "stolen". She probably would have won without any DNC intervention, so it wasn't "rigged", either. And the DNC is under no duty to be objective, so it wasn't malfeasance in that sense.

My complaint is specifically that the DNC denied attempting to skew things to Hillary, and collected money while pretending to be neutral. Sanders repeatedly accused the DNC of favoring Hillary and attacking him, and DNC staffers said that the claims were untrue and absurd.

Priebus and the RNC openly opposed Trump, as was their right. Donors to the RNC knew that they were effectively donating to Cruz and Rubio, and against Trump. The DNC insisted they weren't opposing Sanders, and then did so behind the backs of voters and donors.

So no, I'm not mad that a party committee tried to influence a primary. I'm mad that they did so while swearing up and down they weren't, and mocking the Sanders campaign for claiming otherwise.

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by vasilipupkin on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @03:59PM (#12264400)
I guess, although you have to realize the reality of politics is often like this. It is because the voters on average are quite misinformed, so they will not understand the nuance of the situation. So, yes, they got caught in a lie and had to resign as a result.
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by harshreality on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @11:24AM (#12262419)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law

In light of that, if you don't believe parties have a duty to be fair to all primary contenders, then I'm at a loss. How do you expect to avoid cronyism and corruption when "private" political parties are outed working to bias primaries and you say that's okay?

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by vasilipupkin on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @11:28AM (#12262450)
what does "fair" mean? A party's purpose is to advance a set of ideas. So, absolutely, the party leadership can choose not to be fair to a primary candidate that does not support those ideas. As an example, if Sanders is a socialist and wants to advance socialist ideas, he can form his own party and have it be on the ballot. And that party should be free to reject primary candidates who are not socialists, no? otherwise, why have parties in the first place ?

Having said all that, the democratic primary election was pretty fair and the current candidate is the one who won the most votes.

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by harshreality on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @11:56AM (#12262686)
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-san...

Don't you think fair means, at a minimum, not doing that kind of thing? The DNC's officials were trying to persuade their own party's voters against one primary candidate and for another primary candidate.

As I understand it, a party's purpose is to organize and provide membership for people sharing whatever ideology they share, who are then (among other things) capable of signing petitions for candidates seeking to run under that Party's name. If enough party members from enough districts sign your petition, you're on that party's primary ballot in that State.

Most of what the DNC and RNC do, or what they should do, is either administrative, or attacking the other party. I'm not defending that DNC vs RNC dynamic; I think we'd probably be better off without the party system, at least as it currently exists as a privatized crony-capitalism bullshit theater with very public repercussions... and I'm also in favor of fixing the voting systems used by the States. But, in the meantime, the DNC and RNC should be banned from trying to influence their own primaries.

If DNC officials want to attack one primary candidate, they should quit the DNC and go work for an opposing primary candidate's campaign. They don't want to do that, because they'd lose the status of working under the aegis of the DNC; they'd be working merely for one candidate or another, any of which could lose.

To put it succinctly, a political party official should act in a purely administrative manner with respect to the party's own internal operation, including its primaries.

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by vasilipupkin on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @12:22PM (#12262883)
Well, I disagree with your last statement. Party officials should act to protect the raison d'être for this party's existence in the first place. As I said above, if you are a socialist, by all means, register a socialist party, get on the ballot in every state, raise enough money for advertising, etc. to be competitive - nothing is stopping you from doing this. That does not mean that non socialist party officials should just roll over whenever a socialist runs in their primaries.

As an example, say what you want, Donald Trump is clearly not a conservative in any meaningful sense of conservatism. What is the long run result of his candidacy? there is a high probability that the long run result is irreversible damage to Republican party. Surely, party officials can act to prevent something like this, and not simply act as disinterested administrators. A political party in the US is essentially a private non for profit organization - that can run its affairs as the leadership of that party sees fit

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by cwisecarver on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @12:29PM (#12262940)
You do realize that the DNC not being "fair" might have affected who won the most votes, right?

That's the entire point.

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by vasilipupkin on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @12:56PM (#12263201)
in what way? do primary voters not support Hillary Clinton more than they support Sanders? Was it not up to them to decide ? were they in any way prevented from deciding ?
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by Jtsummers on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @09:48AM (#12261676)
Neither the DNC, RNC, nor any other political party organization is a federal institution.
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by emp_zealoth on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @10:13AM (#12261865)
Doesn't it make it even worse? A private, oblique organisation has effective stranglehold on who gets the shot at presidency with little oversight, because "private"
Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by Jtsummers on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @10:37AM (#12262072)
The DNC is a private entity, and can act (internally) just about any way they want. You and I are free (well, constrained by finances I suppose) to establish our own parties that act however we want. Freedom of association and all.

People don't have to join the Democrats or the Republicans. Those who do make that choice are now learning that these parties function exactly like any other corporate entity. Some sort of oligarchy calling the shots over a pseudo-democratic process that they ostensibly claim to be the real process. Time for the schisms.

Re:WikiLeaks offers $20,000 for information on former DNC st... by dmschulman on Wednesday August 10, 2016 @11:21AM (#12262400)
Someone didn't pay attention in civics class. You'd prefer the federal government to manage the decisions of all the major political parties?