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Re:Why Bad Ideas Refuse to Die by rdtsc on Sunday August 07, 2016 @02:52PM (#12243126)
> Earth is really flat.

In a perverse way I like the flat earth thing. It is nice quick proxy for what a particular person believes and a testament to their background and intelligence level. In other words it quickly tells something about them.

Sometimes I wonder if flat earth is a ploy by a group of con men to spread the idea and see who believes them which, then quickly identifies those as good potential "marks" for scamming.

One can extend this to other beliefs -- Earth is only 4000 years old. There are lot of those in this country. And with Mitt Romney we almost had a President with power to launch nuclear weapons who belies some pretty wacky stuff.

It doesn't have to be religious -- anti-vax people in the same category.

Re:Why Bad Ideas Refuse to Die by 3princip on Sunday August 07, 2016 @03:26PM (#12243265)
I am not a "flat earther", just setting context to avoid confusion.

There are everyday observations which will reinforce the fact that the Earth is not flat. Tides? Movement of Sun/Moon/Planets/Stars across the sky? Satellites? Pictures from space? That's just off the top of my head, probably hundreds more.

But, and just to play devils advocate, let's say the pictures may be fake and there is an elaborate conspiracy. Have I done any experiment myself to prove the Earth is round? There are some very simple intuitive ones mentioned here[1]. The answer is no. So while it is clear from the overwhelming body evidence that it is not flat, I have accepted almost all of that evidence without verifying it myself in any experimental way. And this is one of the simplest topics one can examine.

I haven't tracked the movement of stars across the sky, I have not been to space, I have not measured shadows or the curvature of the earth. I've been in a plane, and it does appear to be curved, so there is that.

Obviously, I cannot possibly question everything, it would be futile and exhaustive and get me nowhere. But I do believe we do not question enough the truths we take for granted because they have been presented to as truth.

And while some topics are barmy, flat-earth being one, there may be others with much shakier body of evidence to back it up, which are today presented and taught as truth. Also, I find myself more and more intrigued by a good conspiracy, and enjoy the company of conspiracy theorists, because it makes me think and re-examine why I take the presented truth for granted.

[1] http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/26427/what-is-the...

Re:Why Bad Ideas Refuse to Die by Artlav on Sunday August 07, 2016 @03:34PM (#12243299)
Hm, aren't there 2 directly visible pieces of evidence (at least for anyone who travels)?

One is talking to someone on the other side of the planet, where the time would be different (and so day or night instead of night or day).

The other - that the stars look quite different when you go to another latitude.

It may not be possible to question and personally re-check everything, but if you make that a habit, you'll notice a pattern of which experts are usually right and in which field (besides getting a good idea of how the world runs).

From there, you can bridge the gaps in your experience with carefully placed bits of trust.

Re:Why Bad Ideas Refuse to Die by titanomachy on Sunday August 07, 2016 @04:13PM (#12243452)
The sun setting at different times depending on longitude seems to be a pretty obvious hole in the theory. I'm curious how the flat earthers justify that, although not curious enough to actually research it.

You don't even need to go around the world... just call an East-coast friend from the West coast a couple of hours before sunset... "hey is it night there?" "yep" "OK, the world must be round then!"

Re:Why Bad Ideas Refuse to Die by 3princip on Sunday August 07, 2016 @04:54PM (#12243604)
Sure. I'm not arguing for flat-earth, but I've never called someone to check if the sun has set for the purpose of satisfying my curiosity about the shape of the Earth. It is, however, implied in the conversations we have every day (coworkers finishing work at different times because of timezones) so there is no need to ask some things I guess.

My point was more that we take a lot for granted, some things obvious, some maybe less so, and it is not always silly to question even the simplest of assumptions.

Re:Why Bad Ideas Refuse to Die by ommunist on Monday August 08, 2016 @12:40AM (#12245542)
Why not? The Earth is flat for a four-dimensional being.
Re:Why Bad Ideas Refuse to Die by mikhailfranco on Monday August 08, 2016 @03:35AM (#12246036)
We have flatness and straightness. The 4D beings would have 3-flatness, 2-flatness and straightness.
Re:Why Bad Ideas Refuse to Die by learc83 on Sunday August 07, 2016 @03:12PM (#12243204)
Most of the people I've met who actually believe the earth is only 4,000 years old think that it was created already old [1]. They usually start with something like: Did the first created tree have tree rings?; did Adam and Eve have belly buttons? etc... They believe that the answer to those questions is probably yes, so the theory is that the earth was created similarly.

At that point they're not really making any refutable scientific claims.

Unlike the flat earth people who are making refutable scientific claims that almost anyone can refute for themselves.

[1]. I have also met people who believe that there is just not enough evidence for any kind of evolution. However, even that position is much more defensible than the flat earth position. If only because there is more evidence that the earth is round readily available to people without specialized knowledge, than there is for evolution. A layman can't observe evolution, the way they can observe that the earth is a sphere.

Re:Why Bad Ideas Refuse to Die by pharrington on Sunday August 07, 2016 @04:03PM (#12243401)
You totally don't have to be stupid to believe completely insane stuff. Though they can employ logic, brains aren't logical; from what I've read and observed, it seems a person's response to new information is a function of how well that information fits into their existing belief structures with modification by their emotional state.

I'm not interested enough in the flat earthers to have looked into what keeps them in their beliefs. However, thanks to someone's comment in a cognitive dissonance thread here a few months ago, I do have a deep personal interest in doomsday cults. Turns out people of all backgrounds can believe the craziest shit if they were groomed to believe it from birth, or if believing the crazy shit is easier than believing that the majority of your information intake has been straight lies, or if your entire social network is predicated on believing.

The only thing someone being a flat earther tells you is that at some point, their cognitive biases catastrophically failed them. There's a whole world of phenomena that could be the cause.