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Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by TeMPOraL on Saturday August 06, 2016 @12:19PM (#12238626)
> Prison is a punishment

Beside the points others made here that it isn't, and it shouldn't be, I'd like to invite you to think about the ethical and practical implications of punishing someone over, and over, and over again for years or even decades, for an action that usually took only a very, very small fraction of time compared to the length of "punishment". The very idea flies in the face of... well any kind of experience with people and how they learn.

Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by smallnamespace on Saturday August 06, 2016 @02:16PM (#12239174)
Retributive justice isn't for the the criminals, it's to deter other crime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retributive_justice#Principles

Personally, I think we've gone too far down the 'retributive' route without corresponding investments in rehabilitation, but a lot of Americans prefer to lock the door and throw away the key.

Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by tamana on Saturday August 06, 2016 @03:28PM (#12239501)
Why does retributive justice require prisoners not making chitchat?
Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by smallnamespace on Saturday August 06, 2016 @04:29PM (#12239754)
Because not being able to talk and/and bilking their families is indeed a form of punishment?
Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by nitrogen on Saturday August 06, 2016 @06:03PM (#12240108)
Does it actually work for that, though?
Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by smallnamespace on Saturday August 06, 2016 @06:37PM (#12240210)
Well, comparing criminal justice models is by definition difficult since it's deeply embedded in the society.

You can look at other societies where they spend more time rehabilitating offenders (e.g. Norway), and Norway does have lower crime rates, but which way does causation run? You can argue that rehabilitation lowers crime rates, or you can argue that low crime rates makes the society tolerant of relatively lenient punishment.

And if it turns out that retributive punishment does work effectively, are you willing to pay for increased crime rates just to find out that our current system is alright?

Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by nitrogen on Monday August 08, 2016 @01:10PM (#12249271)
And if it turns out that retributive punishment does work effectively, are you willing to pay for increased crime rates just to find out that our current system is alright?

This type of what-if paralysis isn't rationally supportable. Some similar examples to show where the logic fails:

And if particle accelerators do produce black holes, are you willing to destroy the planet just to prove it?

And if it turns out Cthulhu does live on the moon, are you willing to unleash its wrath by visiting?

Instead of paranoid fear of worst-case hypotheticals, we should be using empirical evidence to guide decisions. We can look at other countries. We can look at differences between states and counties. We can conduct experiments in smaller areas and roll them out over time if they work. Or we can just have some basic human empathy.

Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by Fjolsvith on Sunday August 07, 2016 @10:15PM (#12245066)
It did for me. My second conviction sent me down for 7.5 years and it was only about 5 years into that bit that I said, "okay, I quit. I'll be good now."
Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by nitrogen on Sunday August 07, 2016 @11:09PM (#12245248)
If you don't mind my asking, do you think there could have been a faster way, or was that probably the only way to reach you?
Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by Fjolsvith on Monday August 08, 2016 @01:10PM (#12249268)
I believe it is subjective to the individual. If a person doesn't have any ties (relatives or friends on the outside) they might never get to that point. What was key for me was that before I went first went down, I was a hobbyist programmer and had an independent, many-years long MMO game project under way. Being in prison chafed at me horrible because every day I felt like nothing was being accomplished towards it! I knew I was loosing time from completing that goal.

Its funny how the goal that I wanted to work towards changed from that game to a successful life.

Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by ludamad on Saturday August 06, 2016 @01:39PM (#12239001)
It's the fear of that punishment that is desired. Most people think murderers or similar are beyond redemption
Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by bdcravens on Saturday August 06, 2016 @04:33PM (#12239775)
Yet DWI has a very high rate of recidivism, and DWI deaths are on par with murder victims. Murder has a very low rate of recidivism (most people don't realize everyone doesn't get a life sentence) Which group is really beyond redemption?
Re:Americans Don't Care About Prison Phone Exploitation, Say... by robryk on Saturday August 06, 2016 @06:51PM (#12240245)
And yet we make the actual prison experience worse than how it is perceived by a typical person.