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Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by billconan on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @02:14AM (#12215961)
I grew up in China, and I'm now living in the bay area. I just went back for a month for vacation. I too saw a more living mobile ecosystem.

and wechat is indeed in the center of this system. For example, a fruit stand would now accept mobile payment via wechat. those who run fruit stands are usually farmers.

I think it makes a lot of sense to build mobile payment into a a social app. because any currency would require a social network. and transferring money is a key social activity.

building independent mobile payment without the support from a mature social network is a bad idea, for example square and apple pay (only useable in the apple ecosystem, a partial mobile ecosystem).

China never seemed to have a credit card era, it jumped directly from paying cash to paying with mobile. whereas in the U.S., credit card is so convenient, people don't want to change.

for many years, wechat has been combining new features with its social network, whereas whatsapp wanted to be a pure chatting app and missed many opportunities.

you can use wechat to order food at restaurants, you can log into public wifi with wechat ....

This is just one example. Another thing I noticed is online shopping. At the gate of our apartment, each day, there are many deliver guys on tricycles. They have a more efficient and cheap delivering system.

For example, in the yard of our apartment we have storage cabinets with password locks. The deliver guys won't deliver each package to your door, as it is inefficient, especially because apartment buildings are tall in China, you have to take elevator. Instead, they put packages into one of the cabinet doors. And you will receive a password on your phone. Put the code in, the cabinet door will open. you can then get the package.

This is not a complex idea, but hard to implement in the U.S., because we don't have the same population density here. When you build an infrastructure like this, you want to serve as many people as possible.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by billconan on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @02:58AM (#12216139)
guess I should also write the other side of the story -- things I don't like about China.

Overall, I feel that China is like the U.S. in its early days (1920s). Or the 1999 Silicon Valley

There are a lot of opportunities, but less rules. It's a jungle basically. For people with tech depth and want to build something steadily, China is not the best place.

a high percentage of young entrepreneurs there are just opportunists. They are not interested in sitting down and building something useful. Instead, they just want to quickly raise/burn money and go public.

There are way more theranos' there in China.

And you need to have connections to success in China. This is a historical and cultural thing.

I don't know how many of you noticed the recent news of didi acquiring uber China. The leaders of the two companies are actually from the same family. One is the daughter of the Lenovo CEO. The other is the niece of him. Probably coincidence,but you see coincidences more often in China.

My attitude towards China is that I take it seriously. I admit what it does better. But I don't think I'm strong enough to fight in the jungle.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by 20andup on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @06:56AM (#12217065)
"a high percentage of young entrepreneurs there are just opportunists. They are not interested in sitting down and building something useful. Instead, they just want to quickly raise/burn money and go public."

I worked for several SF startups and most are the same. So I don't agree there are way more Theranos' in China. I would say they are probably around the same level in terms of many people claiming they are for something when they are not.

This doesn't just happen in tech though. I have seen it in banking as well when it was booming. When there is a booming industry, it tends to attract a lot of posers that exasperates the hype.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by billconan on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @10:19AM (#12218057)
I agree, although China is worse by few levels I think.

I see this phenomena everywhere in China. I can't tell where Chinese silicon valley and wall street are. running start-ups has become a all-people movement.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by eric-hu on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @03:24AM (#12216245)
I would like to see more of this kind of "Here's how I see it in the positive and negative" discussion on HN. Kudos for sharing the opposing sides of your own opinion.
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by erikb on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @05:19AM (#12216711)
Same here. I think startups everywhere are a jungle, but in China it's a lot deeper, much deeper. Tricks, politics, family, all of that plays a much bigger role and luck can change much more quickly. I don't know how it is in Shanghai but in the countryside it's also still possible that you need to deal with mob like groups that will simply put you in the hospital if they feel you are disturbing their business.
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by 20andup on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @06:57AM (#12217071)
Where do you live?
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by Asetsuna on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @04:08AM (#12216410)
To be fair, you can get success more easily in US if you have connections which is the same as China. Maybe Bill Gate and his mother's background is a similar example to what you referred about DiDi.
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by xiaoma on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @08:46AM (#12217508)
Don't be ridiculous. If it were actually the same, then Bill Gates could have used his influence to get Netscape's site blocked from the internet or depending on the depth of his connections with Bill Clinton at the time, get Marc Andreessen thrown in prison.

For those who do manage to become billionaires, the game often becomes even rougher: http://www.forbes.com/sites/raykwong/2011/07/25/friends-dont...

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by billconan on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @10:27AM (#12218119)
That's true.

But on the other hand, you seldom see people in Silicon Valley are actually from the valley. They are immigrants from different states and countries. They abandoned their connections (especially family connections) from home to start over here. Many of them became successful.

China simply doesn't have the same soil for this kind of success.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by smallbag on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @04:08AM (#12216414)
I find it funny, what you describe looks like Silicon Valley
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by hx87 on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @12:54PM (#12219422)
Social connections to government officials matter a bit less in SV, and family connections much less.
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by billconan on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @09:55AM (#12217891)
not the same level tough.

at least, SV is the birth place of many hardcore tech companies like intel.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by chenster on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @10:01AM (#12217934)
"...a high percentage of young entrepreneurs there are just opportunists." sounds like Wall Street, the same difference.
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by kalleboo on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @04:43AM (#12216555)
> For example, in the yard of our apartment we have storage cabinets with password locks

We've had these in Japan for decades, but less high-tech - it's just a manual code lock and the delivery man writes the code down on a delivery slip and sticks in your mailbox.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by stephenitis on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @02:23AM (#12215991)
luxer one and amazon lockers do the same.

For example, in the yard of our apartment we have storage cabinets with password locks. The deliver guys won't deliver each package to your door, as it is inefficient, especially because apartment buildings are tall in China, you have to take elevator. Instead, they put packages into one of the cabinet doors. And you will receive a password on your phone. Put the code in, the cabinet door will open. you can then get the package.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @02:38AM (#12216055)
And they did it way before...

But China invented the fruit lockers: you want fresh fruit, it gets delivered to a locker in your apartment everyday. I haven't tried it, but was a bit floored when I saw one.

We personally just have them leave packages at the wuye (apartment management), any high end apartment just has a counter that will keep your package for you, no need for a locker solution.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by jerf on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @09:47AM (#12217839)
That's a cost-of-labor problem. Obviously there's no particular technological trick to it; the West had milk deliveries decades ago which is fairly similar. But cost-of-labor makes that impossible to do economically here today; you can't afford to pay someone to deliver something as cheap as fruit or milk in the US, because nobody will pay the requisite markup.

Whether that's advantage China or advantage US depends on your perspective.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by billconan on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @10:07AM (#12217967)
it's a matter of cost-of-labor and population density.

I heard that railway systems in most countries are not profitable, they have to be funded by the government.

But the Chinese railway system is so advanced and profitable, due to cost-of-labor and population density. Even high speed railway wasn't a Chinese invention. As a comparison, the U.S. railway is so old and kinda desolate.

Most ideas are not originated from China, but they grow better in China.

Because of the population density, the network effect is stronger in China.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by s_q_b on Thursday August 04, 2016 @08:20AM (#12224991)
There's also the fact that China is not as burdened by legacy infrastructure and business models.

For example, consider high speed rail in California. Due to the existing rail system, the marginal increase in economic benefit gained by building a new high speed system is fairly small.

Compare this situation to high speed rail in China. Without the existence of a fairly efficient existing system, the economic benefit to building the high speed lines was massive.

This historical pattern is somewhat common.

Rising societies have all of the latest advances gained by building previous systems, and none of the existing societies' technical debt.

They get the newest and shiniest technological base, simply because they're building it now.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by hx87 on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @12:57PM (#12219459)
> the U.S. railway is so old and kinda desolate

That's only true of passenger rail though--freight rail in the US works really well.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by mikeash on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @01:48PM (#12219953)
My neighborhood has an even simpler system. We all have individual mailboxes, and then there are a few larger mailboxes for packages. When the mailman delivers a large package, he puts it in one of the package boxes, locks it, then puts the key in the mailbox belonging to the recipient. The recipient then gets the key with the rest of their mail, which they use to get to the package. The package locks are designed to capture the key once you use them, so only the mailman can retrieve the key and use it again next time.
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by philliphaydon on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @03:44AM (#12216333)
Here in Singapore we have POPStations everywhere:

https://www.mypopstation.com/

Best thing ever.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by sean-duffy on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @06:31AM (#12216975)
In London (and the rest of the UK) many convenience stores have parcel collection services. So when I want something from Amazon I deliver it to the Sainsbury's around the corner from my flat and then collect it when I go to buy food on my way home from work.
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by noobermin on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @03:57AM (#12216366)
My gf pointed those out in passing but remarked "no one's using them."
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by philliphaydon on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @04:01AM (#12216377)
Really? I live in Tanjong Pagar Plaza, we have a post office / popstation in the community area, and use them all the time, every time I go collect stuff I see other people collecting things.

Strange to hear no one uses them.

Granted, post offices are beginning to hold less and less now, cutting costs I guess, which may be increasing the usage.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by benbristow on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @05:39AM (#12216767)
Thought you meant this for a minute... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvXleDSkB-g
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by billconan on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @02:25AM (#12216006)
but somehow I never saw them in Bay area ...
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by linkregister on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @02:49AM (#12216104)
There are only nine Amazon lockers in San Francisco. And five more in the immediate East Bay. It would be pretty easy to miss them.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/css/account/address/view.html

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by billconan on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @10:32AM (#12218149)
If I have to drive for miles to reach the locker, then I'd rather have my packages delivered to my door. That's why I thought China can implement this idea better, because by a walking distance, you can reach thousands of people.

But in the U.S., it may be a good idea to locate the lockers in grocery stores. Picking packages while doing groceries is also convenient.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by et-al on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @08:46PM (#12222623)
Assuming people don't have their groceries delivered as well. ;)
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by et-al on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @02:37AM (#12216052)
7-11s from SF to Palo Alto have Amazon Lockers. It's a great idea, but someone needs to pony up the space.
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by fraserharris on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @02:38AM (#12216054)
BufferBox (YC, acq Google) too...
Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by auganov on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @05:25AM (#12216729)
To illustrate the level of wechat craze: even VCs will often add you on wechat rather than exchange emails. I've seen group chats of founders and VCs coming up with ideas and arranging funding all within wechat. It seems like people don't compartmentalize professional and private communications as much as Westerners do.

I bet facebook is thinking hard how to merge Messenger and Whatsapp without getting people angry.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by zhte415 on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @07:29AM (#12217182)
> I bet facebook is thinking hard how to merge Messenger and Whatsapp without getting people angry.

Indeed. Simultaneous communication between WeChat circle, QQ group, the odd email CC'd to people in and out of the conversation. 'Keep the momentum'. Should anyone get confused, send them a screenshot from your phone of the other conversation. It is very fluid. Show you're communicating and getting things done. For transactions, pay via WeChat, or pay via AliPay, doesn't matter, works anywhere.

No need to integrate anything; users will do it themselves if they see a compelling need.

Re:China, Not Silicon Valley, Is Cutting Edge in Mobile Tech by eli_gottlieb on Wednesday August 03, 2016 @07:26AM (#12217172)
>for many years, wechat has been combining new features with its social network, whereas whatsapp wanted to be a pure chatting app and missed many opportunities.

Nah, WhatsApp was just crippled by its origins. It was started independently from a major social-network, and in a country whose currency and payments infrastructure wasn't going to scale outside the original borders very well.