News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by hnal943 on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:22PM (#12212560)
Unions do not have a good history of preserving value, at least not in the USA.
Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by hiou on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:37PM (#12212681)
Then why are developers outside of the higher pay tiers paid about the same as a unionized UPS driver?
Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by jonknee on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:45PM (#12212737)
There are certainly problems with unions, but they have definitely succeeded in raising pay for their members.
Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by hnal943 on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:41PM (#12213233)
Those that still have jobs. Employers commonly reduce the number of jobs available when those jobs become more expensive.
Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by bcheung on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:56PM (#12212842)
Unions typically only exist when there is a huge supply chasing fewer jobs.

With tech it's the other way around.

Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by hx87 on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:47PM (#12212763)
High level executives at large corporations are a small enough group with enough common interests that they might as well constitute a union, and they have an exemplary record of preserving value for themselves.
Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by jonknee on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:02PM (#12212894)
Same for athletes, the MLB Players Union has been extraordinary in preserving value for its members (guaranteed contracts!).
Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by hnal943 on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:46PM (#12213261)
How's the UAW doing? Is it possible that there are factors outside of unionization that affect how these workers are paid?
Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by jonknee on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @05:22PM (#12213529)
You'd have to poll their members, but I would suspect they are pretty happy. They are well paid, are not allowed to be worked around the clock like Silicon Valley programmers and have a known career path. For blue collar work it's about as good as it gets.

> Is it possible that there are factors outside of unionization that affect how these workers are paid?

Of course, there are tons of variables. But it's a fact that unionized workers make more than non-unionized workers in the same jobs, that unionized workers are much more likely to have health insurance, that unionized workers are much more likely to have paid vacation and sick time, etc etc.

Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by hnal943 on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:44PM (#12213244)
It's silly to point to a cohort of high-skilled non-union workers that are highly paid and claim that is an argument for the unionization of high-skilled workers.
Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by hx87 on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @05:10PM (#12213441)
I'm not arguing for unionization here, although it does have its advantages; I'm arguing that:

1) Unionization is easier and more effective when defection is difficult (or impossible, as in some German unions) and heavily punished. As soon as defection pays off, it loses its value.

2) The set of high level executives at large corporations is small and cliquish enough that it is a de facto union, since they can convince boards to bid up each other's prices and punish/shun those who offer their services at lower prices.

Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by nl on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @07:24PM (#12214216)
True, but there are plenty of high-skilled, high-paid workers who are unionized, although they typically would dispute the "union" tag.

The American Medical Association is a great example.

Re:Massachusetts Bans Employers from Asking Applicants About... by walshemj on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @05:12PM (#12213454)
The AMA and the BMA in the UK would beg to differ