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Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by bdavisx on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @02:43PM (#12212202)
There would be far, far fewer deaths from overdose if all drugs were legal. There may be more addicts if they were legal, I don't know - but there would be a lot fewer deaths.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by ergothus on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @02:50PM (#12212267)
I'm not against legalization, but have you done the research to back this up? We have plenty of alcohol-related deaths (both indirect (traffic, etc), and direct (alcohol poisoning).
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by loverofcode on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:52PM (#12212807)
It is hard to get true data, when the only supposedly creditable source (CDC), mixes its data to include all prescription drugs including SSRI's and illicit fentanyl from china.

Opioids can be used in VERY high doses as a person becomes more dependent. What is clear is that people are use to heroin and then take the higher dose without knowing and OD. This is the current trend. It is cheaper to get the Fent from Ch than the H from Afgan.

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by shams93 on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:19PM (#12213037)
You could take a look at the results in Portugal: https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decr...
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by slavik81 on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @05:41PM (#12213638)
The statistics are interesting, but they kind of miss the GGP's point. Decriminalization is not legalization. If you just decriminalize, drug users still have to buy their drugs from sketchy black-market suppliers. That's very dangerous compared to buying from a legal, regulated industry. For example, alcohol is predictable and pure today but in the prohibition era, when all suppliers were criminals, it wasn't [1][2].

[1] http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,288... [2] http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa...

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by d0mine on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @05:16PM (#12213484)
The "Drug-induced deaths" plot from the link is very telling.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by loverofcode on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @05:23PM (#12213535)
it is.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by loverofcode on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @05:23PM (#12213531)
wow. very good info. saved link.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by Archio on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:30PM (#12212617)
We do have tons of alcohol deaths. But the idea here is that no one dies from alcohol today because their alcohol dealer slips in unknown amounts of toxic potentiators to cut costs (which is effectively what is happening with heroin et al. today).
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by FireBeyond on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:32PM (#12212641)
That's not "strictly" overdose, but contamination. The original point still stands, re alcohol overdose.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by MichaelGG on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:52PM (#12213296)
Yeah the increase from heroin to fent would be like drinking a wine cooler (2%) that's actually everclear (95%).

I don't know any user of any substance that would say "well 1 unit is likely to get me off a bit, so I think I'll take 20 just to be sure".

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by anotheryou on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:26PM (#12213097)
There was a nice article about how you survive addiction by growing it out. Addiction has also to do with the circumstance and the personality, not just with the drug itself.

If alcohol was illegal the death toll might be even higher. People might shift to something with more bang for the buck and have an even shittier and shorter life than dying with 64 from liver failure.

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by loverofcode on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:04PM (#12212904)
i mean look at this statement "A study showed patients prescribed high dosages of opioids long-term (>90 days) had 122 times the risk of opioid use disorder compared to patients not prescribed opioids" from the cdc to drs here http://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/pdf/guideline_infographic-a.... So people taking opioids have are at more risk of opioid use disorder than people who dont take them. -YA THINK. And finally look at how they garble the data here http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6450a3.htm they are finally getting to where they can see the drugs are from illegal sources and not dr regulated rxs.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by pizza on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:00PM (#12212346)
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-67...

> Overall, alcohol was the most harmful drug (overall harm score 72), with heroin (55) and crack cocaine (54) in second and third places.

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by danbruc on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:54PM (#12212824)
This study comes up time and again but is really not founded very well. I couple of members of the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs - whatever exactly that is - sat together and scored a selection of drugs on a selected set of criteria. That's it, there is really no data behind this study other than the opinions of those people. Those opinions might be correct but they may as well be biased or even totally wrong.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by gozur88 on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:05PM (#12212917)
Yes. From the abstract:

>Members of the Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs, including two invited specialists, met in a 1-day interactive workshop to score 20 drugs on 16 criteria: nine related to the harms that a drug produces in the individual and seven to the harms to others. Drugs were scored out of 100 points, and the criteria were weighted to indicate their relative importance.

You could make the scores come out however you wanted based on the people you chose for the "1-day interactive workshop" and the criteria you used as the basis for the analysis. This isn't something you'd ever want to use as a basis for policy.

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by celticninja on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:16PM (#12212491)
Have a look at the figures for Portugal pre and post 2001.the Cato Institute did a pretty good write up a few years ago.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by exDM69 on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:51PM (#12213294)
In the case of alcohol, there was a period of prohibition that did not decrease the death count nor reduce harm to individuals or the society. Granted it was a long time ago.

Better data about drug policy and harm reduction can be found by looking at results from Portugal or other countries with permissive policies. None of them supports the claim that prohibition reduces use or harm caused.

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by duaneb on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:27PM (#12213112)
The Swiss have had a program legalizing medical heroin, I believe. That's a starting point.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by MichaelGG on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:52PM (#12213303)
Already legal in NL and UK.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by searine on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:03PM (#12212371)
>There would be far, far fewer deaths from overdose if all drugs were legal.

2/3rds of all overdoses are opiate related.

The biggest impactor to preventing overdose death is the drug Naloxone which is an opioid blocker.

Putting naloxone in the hands of at risk drug users, and as standard kit for police officers/EMTS, is the most effective way to save lives.

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by pizza on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:07PM (#12212416)
Many (if not like more than half, I forget the statistic..) of those overdose deaths result from combining a GABAergic like alcohol or especially benzodiazepines with an opioid.
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by rmac on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:38PM (#12212689)
I wonder why mixing cns depressants is so common? Is it because opioids are so expensive / hard to get, and benzos/alcohol easier to get and cheaper? Or is it simply a better feeling mixing them...
Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by MichaelGG on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @05:07PM (#12213413)
There's also no literature on the subject. So if you need benzos and opiates, there's zero guidance on what's safe. Just "we don't know, we don't measure, don't do it". In other words, abstinence.

Some people take them to increase the nod. Others might have insomnia and don't want to take so much opiates to really sleep.

Edit: And there's obviously some information on this, somewhere because e.g. IV opiate+midazolam is quite a common thing. [In a 3rd world pharmacy, I was actually offered liquid midazolam as a sleep aid when I complained long-lasting benzos were too long-lasting and asked for a medium-duration sleep aid.]

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by pizza on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:45PM (#12212735)
Both, and 3. throwing caution/life to the wind..

oh, and 4. combining a stimulant with a larger/more euphoric dose of the CNS depressants so if the respiratory stimulating effects of the stimulant run out first, respiratory depression ensues

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by rmac on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @03:48PM (#12212777)
In my experience doing a heroic amount of opioids was enough to not care, uppers mixed in as anti-nod.

I didn't understand why people mixed in benzos, unless to curb withdrawals.

Re:Fentanyl, a stealth killer by loverofcode on Tuesday August 02, 2016 @04:08PM (#12212943)
and SSRI's, if someone takes herion, zoloft, and xanax and OD's from zoloft, it gets placed in the prescription and illegal category. Instead of quantifying the actual numbers and being precise. So even though zoloft killed them, it will go under opioids.