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Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by sandworm101 on Saturday July 30, 2016 @12:08PM (#12193526)
I'm calling BS on this. The stealthiness of a sub, it's only real purpose, is defeated the moment you start transmitting via a big antenna. It wouldn't happen. Subs no doubt are used for surveillance, but the concept of them sitting offshore and actively "hacking" communications is absurd. It would be a suicide mission with a billion-dollar asset.

The OP reads like a funding request. It's a pitch for a world where hackers will live inside submarines close to the action, when we know from experience that even when submarines were used to tap lines that the submarine did nothing other than install the tap and scurry away. (They also retrieved the recorders, but then too scurried away asap.) You don't risk something like a sub, and the lives onboard, on information management that can be done from afar. A drone capable of operating untethered far away from the mother ship might as well be controlled from thousands of miles away. The sub may launch the hacker-drone, but no matter the navy's fantasy, subs won't be at the center of the flowchart.

Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by dalke on Saturday July 30, 2016 @01:11PM (#12193763)
If it's absurd, please explain p.26 of https://snowdenarchive.cjfe.org/greenstone/collect/snowden1/... where we see the USS Annapolis being used for interactive operations ("Connection via: NEPTUNETHUNDER, BLINDDATE/HAPPYHOUR", "Successful exploits at 4, 6, ad 8 NM with 4 watt access point") and for man-on-the-side operations ("Inject using BLINDDATE/NITESTAND", "Successful inject at 4NM to 100mw client computer").

Or to p.27 with a flowchart of the "Afloat Computer Network Operations", which uses Fleet Comms to connect to the Annapolis, which connects to a set of antennas?

You wrote "subs won't be at the center of the flowchart", but the sub literally is the closest box to the center of that flowchart.

(This is from an April 2012 document which is part of the Snowden leak.)

Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by semi-extrinsic on Saturday July 30, 2016 @08:59PM (#12195289)
So that's communication over 8 nautical miles, or 15 km, presumably line-of-sight. Consumer equipment (5 GHz wimax ac) can do that with a 20x20 cm directional antenna. Have a look at a Ubiquiti NanoStation, for instance. Sticking up a pole with a 20x20 cm fiberglass antenna on it won't give a radar return distinguishable from wave noise even at calm seas.
Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by sandworm101 on Saturday July 30, 2016 @01:21PM (#12193794)
Those are tests, not operations. They were against friendly targets, specifically consumer wifi/bluetooth devices (based on the wattages). Had the target been actively looking for attacks, the sub would have been located within seconds. You wouldn't do this against an attacker with any ability to respond physically. The only time this would be useful would be against an unsophisticated target, but then why bother with the sub?

An airborne drone could do, does, the same job at 0.01% of the cost and 1/0 less lives on the line. The sub is ridiculous overkill.

Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by dalke on Saturday July 30, 2016 @03:36PM (#12194360)
I take your point. I don't think now that it's unreasonable.
Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by zeroer on Saturday July 30, 2016 @04:54PM (#12194659)
> 1/0 less lives on the line

It's just 100% fewer lives on the line.

Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by brudgers on Saturday July 30, 2016 @12:36PM (#12193638)
A parabolic antenna can create a narrow beam. That beam can be aimed at a satellite. It is only necessary for the antenna but not the submarine to be at the surface.

The long usage history of sonobuoys and underwater decoys in submarine warfare seems reason to suppose that the use of similar sacrificial systems within the realm of possible tactics to further avoid detection of a submarine.

Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by sandworm101 on Saturday July 30, 2016 @12:57PM (#12193709)
(1) A parabolic antenna is a huge radar target for anyone hunting submarines.

(2) A parabolic antenna, or any other very directional antenna, requires a stable platform. Either it's on a huge inflatable raft, or the sub is rigidly attached. Either way, the operation will be noticed.

(3) Sacrificial systems in submarine warfare are rare. They exist but, like aircraft launching flares, they draw attention and are therefor only used once the sub has been somehow detected. Subs don't like anything that draws attention unless things are already hitting the fan.

Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by billbail on Saturday July 30, 2016 @01:40PM (#12193869)
> (1) A parabolic antenna is a huge radar target for anyone hunting submarines.

I'm not sure if you are suggesting that an antenna would have to be detrimental to the radar cross-section of a submarine or if you are suggesting that you can intercept radio waves from a high directivity antenna.

For the former, directional antennas are on all forms of modern day stealth vehicles without compromising the radar cross-section of the vehicle (eg. modern jet fighters).

For the latter I have already seen successful systems such as MADL [1] which use highly directional radio waves to communicate between stealth fighter jets (something you would hope would go undetected). So I highly doubt that submarines couldn't have a similar system in place.

> (2) A parabolic antenna, or any other very directional antenna, requires a stable platform. Either it's on a huge inflatable raft, or the sub is rigidly attached. Either way, the operation will be noticed.

As shown in [1], directional radio waves can be sent from one jet fighter to another. Both of these are not stable platforms.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multifunction_Advanced_Data_Li...

Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by sandworm101 on Saturday July 30, 2016 @04:10PM (#12194488)
>> from one jet fighter to another. Both of these are not stable platforms.

Fighter aircraft as remarkable stable platforms. They spend 95%+ of their time wings-level, say +/- 5*. And most of the motions of an aircraft are commanded by the pilot, allowing electronics a momentary heads up to make decisions re antennas. Compare that to a tiny raft in even moderate seas, constantly moving in every dimension, where the random motion never, ever, stops. Many a fighter jock has suffered sea sickness.

Re:America uses stealthy submarines to hack other countries’... by spikels on Saturday July 30, 2016 @03:39PM (#12194370)
I think you are just misreading the article. Nobody said anything about big antennas on submarines transmitting. The only new information contined is from a speech by the head of submarine operations saying that submarines are important to signals intelligence with very little detail. (Yes this is PR for submarines.) The rest is old news and somewhat confused speculation.

In reality this non-story appears to simply be something convenient for the WP to tack on 2 paragraphs of Trump attacks. Kinda weird.