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Re:Israel Proves the Desalination Era Is Here by CydeWeys on Saturday July 30, 2016 @10:19AM (#12193068)
The Arab Spring happened precisely in those countries that were already totalitarian and dysfunctional anyway. If not this crisis it could've just as easily been something else, like what's going on in Turkey right now. A lot of the Middle East petro-states are only propped up by their oil wealth, the profits on which go mostly to the elites, with token handouts and subsidies for everyone else. They've already had to subsidize food and water for a long time in order to prevent their societies from revolting, and increased costs due to desalination is thus only a difference in degree, not kind. As for the World War II comparison, well, the world is simply different now in a huge number of ways. So while I don't disagree with the examples you bring up, I just don't see them being relevant to developed democratic societies, which I believe can solve these problems. A lot of the remainder already has problems anyway, and water scarcity is one of a laundry list of problems on their plate, which also includes displacement due to rising sea levels, climate change, you name it.

As for letting your lawn die, what I really meant but didn't say because it doesn't sound as pithy is to replace your lawn with landscaping or native flora that require much less water to maintain. There are many parts of California, Phoenix, Las Vegas, and other places that are all essentially desert, and rapidly tend back towards desert in the absence of voluminous irrigation. It makes no sense to waste thousands of liters of water per lawn per day keeping non-native grasses alive in the middle of a desert. For the cost of only several months' water you can replace your yard with something that doesn't need watering and won't blow away in a storm, the simplest and cheapest replacement being gravel.

Re:Israel Proves the Desalination Era Is Here by valarauca1 on Saturday July 30, 2016 @10:39AM (#12193148)
>The Arab Spring happened precisely in those countries that were already totalitarian and dysfunctional anyway.

But they were nonetheless capitalist. There were market forces at work to fix the problem, but it failed . Which still is a powerful argument against your thesis.

Sometimes the hand of the market isn't sufficiently incentivized by starving broke people. Sure they would pay, but can they?

Re:Israel Proves the Desalination Era Is Here by woodpanel on Saturday July 30, 2016 @01:58PM (#12193949)
They were (and mostly still are) heavily statist countries. "Capitalist" they were only if you would think about this word as a scale. Like North Korea being slightly capitalistic.

Those countries though lack attributes of classical capitalistic societies like

- proper ownership titles and their protection from third parties, including the state

- low barriers for market entry

- free(r) flow of capital, including across their borders

All of these were practically absent in those countries. Good luck establishing your broadcasting service being a christian/jew/<minority> and without connections to the feudal rulers/police/military.

Which capitalist society does employ it's military to produce basic goods, like milk?

Re:Israel Proves the Desalination Era Is Here by CydeWeys on Saturday July 30, 2016 @11:12AM (#12193264)
Were the actually capitalist? When I think of the Middle East monarchies dominated by an inherited nobility that controls all of the wealth and gives handouts to keep the lower class from revolting, "capitalism" is not what comes to mind.

I feel like I'm being mistaken for a staunch libertarian here, so I want to point out that I'm not that at all. I do think there is a big role for government investment to play in society, including in providing drinkable freshwater. This was the Israeli solution, and it's increasingly going that way in California as well. I'm not advocating for strict market-force-only supply-and-demand, but rather just pointing out that wasteful uses of water will go down as the price of water goes up, which it should be allowed to do rather than being subsidized in order to control wasteful uses. The cost of having enough water to drink and to cook with is measured in the low cents per day per person in the US. A single penny gets you over two gallons from the faucet where I live. And I'm in favor of safety net programs to prevent people from dying from illness, hunger, or thirst.

Re:Israel Proves the Desalination Era Is Here by noobermin on Saturday July 30, 2016 @03:13PM (#12194265)
I think the point here is as in Israel, there needs to be a system, government, and culture that makes a free market possible. In the case where such a system is corrupt or instead offloads the costs onto another group of people, such a system falls apart and you have revolution as a result.
Re:Israel Proves the Desalination Era Is Here by pm90 on Saturday July 30, 2016 @04:30PM (#12194571)
Exactly. While the parent comments correctly claim that many Middle-Eastern countries are technically capitalist, they do not provide a fair system where anyone with the capital can set up shop and start offering products/services. There is a large amount of bureaucratic red tape and often lack of property protections that scare away genuine capital.
Re:Israel Proves the Desalination Era Is Here by adolph on Saturday July 30, 2016 @04:41PM (#12194620)
At least to start, the problem was totalitarianism and corruption, not capitalism.

"But when he put them on sale, three inspectors from the council asked him for bribes. Mohamed refused to pay."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-16230190

Re:Israel Proves the Desalination Era Is Here by woodandsteel on Saturday July 30, 2016 @11:41PM (#12195642)
That's crony capitalism, which is what you also have in Putin's Russia. The government decides which private enterprises will succeed, and in return the owners give the governmental officials their political support and immense bribes. It is not nearly as efficient and adaptive as the considerably less corrupt version of capitalism in Israel or the US.