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Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by 55555 on Friday July 29, 2016 @06:29PM (#12190528)
The US dropped more bombs on Laos while fighting the viet cong than the sum of all bombs dropped during WWII. Laos is one of the poorest countries in the world and wasn't directly involved. People are still walking through fields and getting blown up and we don't help them de-mine.

EDIT: I see some upvotes/interest so I want to state a feeling that I have: that we would have never done this if we respected Laotian people or thought of them as our equals. Only by thinking of them as simple poor brown hill folk could something like this happen. If Norway invaded Sweden via Denmark, we would never have treated Denmark the way we treated Laos.

> From 1964 to 1973, as part of the Secret War operation conducted during the Vietnam War, the US military dropped 260 million cluster bombs – about 2.5 million tons of munitions – on Laos over the course of 580,000 bombing missions. This is equivalent to a planeload of bombs being unloaded every eight minutes, 24 hours a day, for nine years – nearly seven bombs for every man, woman and child living in Laos.

> Nearly half of Laos is now contaminated with unexploded ordnances (UXOs), explosive weapons such as bombs, grenades and land mines. Cluster bombs, explosive weapons that work by ejecting hundreds of smaller submunitions over a wide area, make up the majority of UXOs that plague the country. Cluster munitions pose an especially grave danger to civilians, according to specializing in the field of disability, because they are “highly imprecise and indiscriminate” weapons designed to “scatter explosives over swaths of land often hundreds of yards wide.”

> Of the 260 million cluster bombs dropped by the United States, up to 30 percent of them failed to detonate. These bombs were released on targets in a large shell or casing. Each of the casings contained roughly 600 to 700 small bomblets, or “bombies,” as they are often called in Laos.

> There are now close to 78 million unexploded bomblets littering rice fields, villages, school grounds, roads and other populated areas in Laos, hindering development and poverty reduction. More than 34,000 people have been killed or injured by cluster munitions since the bombing ceased in 1973, with close to 300 new casualties in Laos every year. About 40 percent of the accidents result in death and 60 percent of the victims are children. At this time, less than 1 percent of the UXOs have been cleared.

http://legaciesofwar.org/resources/books-documents/land-of-a...

Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by aab0 on Friday July 29, 2016 @11:49PM (#12191533)
> I want to state a feeling that I have: that we would have never done this if we respected Laotian people or thought of them as our equals. Only by thinking of them as simple poor brown hill folk could something like this happen.

So, in the comment section about an article about how two countries of white people went to war and dropped so many bombs that a century later some areas are still unusable, you are claiming that the only reason a country of white people dropped so many bombs on another country that a century later areas will still be unusable is because... the other country had brown people?

Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by Theodores on Saturday July 30, 2016 @12:35AM (#12191660)
No, it is about context. The same can be said for Iraq - more ordnance dropped there than in all of WW2 and that is just 2003-2010. In WW1 the arms trade was barely started compared to what we have today. The world is at war against the arms trade profiteers but people talk about race instead.
Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by 55555 on Saturday July 30, 2016 @01:01AM (#12191711)
I don't think it's all about race. That was just one of four adjectives that I used. But fundamentally I think they were (and are) viewed as more "different" from us and so naturally we feel less empathy and kinship. I think something like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre would be less likely to happen in a scenario where US troops are fighting a proxy war in Canada.

The points you make about Iraq, war profiteers, and context are all spot-on and very informative. Thank you.

Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by vacri on Saturday July 30, 2016 @02:18AM (#12191869)
> Laos is one of the poorest countries in the world and wasn't directly involved.

Laos-the-country wasn't, but Laos-the-geographic-area definitely was. Rightly or wrongly, the US was bombing southern Laos because that's where the North Vietnamese supply channel was. It had nothing to do with the skin colour of the Laotians, and everything to do with the lack of political and military power of Laos.

Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by jrochkind1 on Saturday July 30, 2016 @11:03AM (#12193230)
Political and military power sure seems to be correlated to skin color -- thanks colonialism!
Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by malandrew on Friday July 29, 2016 @07:11PM (#12190752)
Do the number of casualties remain relatively constant over time or have they been trending downwards as more ordinance is detonated accidentally?

In other words, is the rate of accidents high enough to de-mine and reduce the likelihood of future accidents?

Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by 55555 on Friday July 29, 2016 @07:26PM (#12190806)
I imagine a big part of the reason that we don't help them demine is that it's probably not a technically feasible task. I really don't know anything about de-mining or munitions and I don't have a good solution to offer.

In theory it sounds great to pay Laotians to de-mine fields in an organized and systematic manner, thus making quantifiable progress, progressively de-mining, and boosting employment. I don't know if it would work or if it's a realistic goal.

Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by cmdrfred on Friday July 29, 2016 @07:59PM (#12190918)
Can't we use something like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeFY2vTW538

Edit: I found an amazing video of a man disarming a mine that I thought I'd share as well. I assume this is how they do it over there currently. "If you press that, blow up"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWfNZoXr6rQ

Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by e12e on Friday July 29, 2016 @10:52PM (#12191413)
As for "use something like this", where "this" is any kind of technology that tries to detonate mines by force/and or grab up in bulk. You need to be very, very certain that you get all mines. Would you let your child play in the section woods with "hardly any mines" in it?

The issue with forcefully exploding mines is that a certain number might be defective, and/or unstable. Maybe the trigger doesn't work well enough - but maybe it can still go off - perhaps the main charge becomes unstable on its own etc.

There's a reason anti-personnel mines and cluster munitions are illegal (well, in/by civilized countries, anyway) - it's really, really hard to de-mine/clear up this stuff.

Interesting video.

Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by tarpherder on Saturday July 30, 2016 @07:12AM (#12192504)
You mean illegal as in prohibited by the Convention on Cluster Munitions[1]? Signed by all civilized countries of the world, of course. Except for, among others, the U.S., China and Russia.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munition...

Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by cmdrfred on Friday July 29, 2016 @11:50PM (#12191536)
I had never considered that, thanks for the context.
Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by 55555 on Friday July 29, 2016 @08:47PM (#12191086)
Awesome video! I can't help but notice how casually they act.
Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by cmdrfred on Friday July 29, 2016 @09:53PM (#12191267)
That dude is my hero now. Coolest guy in the world. The inner working are also fascinating to see up close.

Edit: Compare him to this guy[0] doing the same mine.

Edit Edit: Down that same rabbit hole I found this[1], I had no idea this stuff was so easy to find.

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa9CtYH5I5o

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgmMy8Hq8oI

Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by percept on Friday July 29, 2016 @07:56PM (#12190904)
US assistance for UXO in Laos has been slowly increasing (though some point out it's only a tiny fraction of the amount spent bombing the country in the first place).
Re:After 100 years World War I battlefields are poisoned and... by Spooky23 on Friday July 29, 2016 @11:00PM (#12191433)
It is definitely something in the art of the possible. It's just expensive.