News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses by wildmusings on Wednesday July 20, 2016 @07:14PM (#12133269)
I'd rather live under a liberal, pro-Western, secular military junta, than an illiberal democracy ruled by Islamists who are destroying liberties, hollowing out civil society, and turning the country into a Sunni version of Iran under the Ayatollahs.

Fareed Zakaria has a great book, The Future of Freedom, where he discusses, among other things, the perils of illiberal democracy. The bit that really stuck in my head is his argument that the impartial judge is a more important institution than the ballot box.

Man has lived under undemocratic regimes for almost all of recorded history. It is the human condition. It is more important to defend civilization and order against barbarism and chaos, than it is to ensure that the majority rules. Liberal values and constitutional government preceded true democracy by hundreds of years in the West. Why do we expect otherwise anywhere else?

Re:Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses by dragonwriter on Wednesday July 20, 2016 @07:31PM (#12133380)
> I'd rather live under a liberal, pro-Western, secular military junta, than an illiberal democracy ruled by Islamists who are destroying liberties, hollowing out civil society, and turning the country into a Sunni version of Iran under the Ayatollahs.

(1) The Sunni version of Iran under the Ayatollahs is called "Saudi Arabia".

(2) Assuming the attribution of the coup to the Gülen movement is accurate, it would likely not have been a "liberal, pro-Western, secular military junta" but instead an "quasi-liberal, pro-Western, relatively-tolerant-but-still-Islamist military junta".

Re:Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses by wildmusings on Wednesday July 20, 2016 @08:48PM (#12133749)
I think Iran is a better comparison. They keep up the pretense and ceremony of democratic legitimacy, have a sizable and somewhat-tolerated liberal civil society, and rose to power by calling the faithful to the streets.

Saudi Arabia is a tough situation. The House of Saud is the only thing standing between the radical imams and total power.

The future of the Middle East looks very dark right now. Egypt is the only large power where the forces of order and civilization are winning.

Re:Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses by abrookewood on Wednesday July 20, 2016 @08:40PM (#12133715)
I agree with you, but I can't help but feel that this position isn't defensible. Don't they have the democratic right to move to a more religious society if the majority want it?
Re:Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses by forgottenpass on Thursday July 21, 2016 @10:53AM (#12137235)
That is "tyranny of the majority", and is one of the well-known failure modes of democracy.
Re:Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses by dctoedt on Wednesday July 20, 2016 @08:53PM (#12133772)
> Don't they have the democratic right to move to a more religious society if the majority want it?

No.

Re:Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses by tedunangst on Wednesday July 20, 2016 @08:47PM (#12133745)
Whether majority rights override individual rights is a matter of some debate.
Re:Turkish government revokes ham radio licenses by internaut on Thursday July 21, 2016 @07:49PM (#12140865)
> Liberal values and constitutional government preceded true democracy by hundreds of years in the West. Why do we expect otherwise anywhere else?

Also the lion's share of economic and scientific advancement.

For some reason democracy is being treated as the all encompassing headline act and receives applause tenuously related to its performance.