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Re:Why Land and Homes Actually Tend to Be Disappointing Inve... by jldugger on Sunday July 17, 2016 @04:15PM (#12111600)
> I'll leave out the moralistic component. When it comes to value, some other considerations are the low interest rates we experience, the fixed 30-year loan, in the U.S. that is, and interest tax deductions. So one isn't pummeling 1M in investment that could otherwise go into a business. One is putting in 200k, even less with an FHA loan, and deducting the price of the loan.

IMO, until savers max out tax advantaged retirement savings options, mortgaging a primary residence isn't close to a sound investment. And that's really what this article is about: your home is not an investment, and you'd be better off renting one (or taking out an interest only loan) and investing the principle payments you would be making into the broader market.

Re:Why Land and Homes Actually Tend to Be Disappointing Inve... by mancerayder on Sunday July 17, 2016 @05:08PM (#12111831)
There's information missing from your argument, or something doesn't make sense.

I'm guessing what you meant to say was, all things being equal, investing principal payments is worse than some tax-deferred savings account.

But I'm not really sure that's ever really the tradeoff for most people? Like I stated above, I pay out of pocket for my primary residence, after tax deductions of interest, principal payments (which come back to me), and rental income from the portion of my home I rent out, LESS than what I would be paying for a tiny studio in a bad neighborhood. If I were a renter, and renting the portion of the house I live in now, I'd be paying more than triple, to some landlord who is taking advantage of these benefits. I prefer to pay myself.

Is it fair that there are all these tax deductions? I didn't even mention that improvements to the house can be factored in, and part of my utilities.

The following is a tangent. I regularly come across people who are huge proponents of savings for retirement as a priority 1. I'm in my 30's and am on my path towards independence already (though I have a way to go). The idea that I should defer risk and investment today, so that I can reap the benefits when I'm 67, is beyond comprehension to me, but it must be a personality thing.

Re:Why Land and Homes Actually Tend to Be Disappointing Inve... by jldugger on Sunday July 17, 2016 @05:46PM (#12112034)
> I'm guessing what you meant to say was, all things being equal, investing principal payments is worse than some tax-deferred savings account.

Correct.

> But I'm not really sure that's ever really the tradeoff for most people?

It's a lot harder to separate out rent from the various home owner expenses involved in a 30 year mortgage than anyone, including myself is willing to engage in in this thread. And it's rare that you'll find enough chances to either rent or buy the exact same property to come up with a solid formula for which side is better.

> The following is a tangent. I regularly come across people who are huge proponents of savings for retirement as a priority 1. I'm in my 30's and am on my path towards independence already (though I have a way to go). The idea that I should defer risk and investment today, so that I can reap the benefits when I'm 67, is beyond comprehension to me, but it must be a personality thing.

You're assuming a retirement date of 67. My spreadsheet projection suggests my investments will be earning more at age 40 than I currently live on, and at age 47 will be earning more than I currently make gross. To get there I actually have to take defer some pleasures and take risk today -- high exposure to equities volatility, etc. I personally view buying a home as the "normal," "safe" option.

The important thing to me is that the money is liquid; it's not locked in a house where transaction fees are 6 percent of the asset. I can pull a chunk of money out of my Roth IRA for anything I want at any time, and the earnings are also lootable for a downpayment should the math turn in my favor. I can also take out loans against my 403b, for down payments or for a variety of causes. My 457b is doesn't have a minimum age for distribution, I just have to employed elsewhere, providing early retirement access.

Re:Why Land and Homes Actually Tend to Be Disappointing Inve... by karma_vaccum123 on Sunday July 17, 2016 @08:07PM (#12112536)
Your home investment isn't "locked"...there is an entire industry set up to let you borrow against your equity if you so wish
Re:Why Land and Homes Actually Tend to Be Disappointing Inve... by vonmoltke on Sunday July 17, 2016 @04:28PM (#12111657)
> you'd be better off renting one (or taking out an interest only loan) and investing the principle payments you would be making into the broader market

How do I invest the principal payments in the market when I need that money to pay my rent?

Re:Why Land and Homes Actually Tend to Be Disappointing Inve... by twblalock on Sunday July 17, 2016 @04:32PM (#12111682)
That's a useless blanket statement. There are many places where it makes sense to buy a home even if you can't max out your 401k -- places where your mortgage payments are a bit cheaper than your rent would be. You wouldn't be able to max out your 401k either way, so you might as well take the cheaper housing option, which is ownership, and put a little more into your 401k than you could otherwise.
Re:Why Land and Homes Actually Tend to Be Disappointing Inve... by kspaans on Sunday July 17, 2016 @06:31PM (#12112201)

    places where your mortgage payments are a bit cheaper than your rent would be
And where you have the stability to stay put and maintain those payments. You can't (easily) sell your house every year and move to a new one.