Machine Money and People Money

Re:Machine Money and People Money by hx87 on Monday July 11, 2016 @10:59AM (#12071482)

The problem with France isn't RSA, it's dirigisme. Regulation kills business and productivity far more than taxation and government spending ever do. If UBI were combined with a repeal of all but the most essential labor regulations so anybody can be hired and/or fired at any time for any reason, then we will see all its advantages without the disadvantages evident in France.

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Re:Machine Money and People Money by weddpros on Monday July 11, 2016 @11:20AM (#12071635)

I didn't say the problem in France is RSA.

But both RSA and UBI need dirigisme. UBI is definitely a form of central planning, with a very wide reach, to shape the society, the people.

So UBI will never come with less dirigisme, but with more of it.

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Re:Machine Money and People Money by hx87 on Monday July 11, 2016 @12:20PM (#12072120)

UBI requires no central planning at all besides the mechanisms for taxation and distribution. It requires that everyone be able to receive the money (i.e. has a bank account), but that's pretty much it.

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Re:Machine Money and People Money by aptwebapps on Monday July 11, 2016 @12:12PM (#12072056)

One of the arguments for UBI is that it is not means-tested so the administrative overhead is much lower as compared with things like France's RSA (if I understand what that is properly).

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Re:Machine Money and People Money by weddpros on Monday July 11, 2016 @12:28PM (#12072174)

I think it's one of the problems of UBI: it can only exist in addition to all other social benefits, because it can't solve every situation appropriately.

Disabled people will need more help than a fit 22yo guy for instance. Social benefits are individualized: UBI can't be the same for everyone and erase existing social benefits.

Also, governments HATE destroying public jobs ;-)

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Re:Machine Money and People Money by dragonwriter on Monday July 11, 2016 @12:33PM (#12072216)

> I think it's one of the problems of UBI: it can only exist in addition to all other social benefits, because it can't solve every situation appropriately.

UBI probably for some extended time into the future would require some other social benefits, but to say that it requires "all" other social benefits is simply wrong. It wouldn't take a very high level of UBI to completely displace the need for existing General Assistance programs in the US, it would take a higher level to replace SNAP and TANF.

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Re:Machine Money and People Money by hx87 on Monday July 11, 2016 @12:39PM (#12072246)

An effective UBI would require some sort of universal healthcare system, which can be wholly public, or a basic public system with a private system on top, to take care of the differences in need between different people.

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