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Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by anigbrowl on Friday March 19, 2010 @01:53AM (#1203479)
I think so...in principle. But imagine how this would work in our partisan legislature - I'm sure you can think of equally awful possibilities regardless of your individual political affiliation. While some bad laws would die a suitable death, some good ones would be made into political footballs as well.

And it would create havoc in the courts. Recall that the Icelanders settled most of their disputes via blood feuds and something like weregeld. Doing that in the modern age would result in many arguments about retroactive punishment and/or restitution for people convicted under expired laws. you might be found guilty, punished, declared innocent, compensated, and then declared guilty after all and owing the money back.

Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by gommm on Friday March 19, 2010 @02:22AM (#1203517)
Yes, I don't think that it would work if laws are retroactive... But then it's quite unfair if they are not.

It is an interesting idea, but I think there'll be a lot of tweaking to be done to the process to get something effective. For example, how long should the expiration date be, 6 years is to short because of the political football problem, 20 years is long if the laws aren't retroactive. Also what to do with the existing laws? Stage out their expiration? How do we choose which one will expire first? or should there be an easy way to strike down old laws?

Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by pmccool on Friday March 19, 2010 @03:00AM (#1203567)
Are retrospective criminal laws even allowed in the US? They're generally considered dicey from a human-rights point of view.
Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by thwarted on Friday March 19, 2010 @03:37AM (#1203613)
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A1Sec9

"No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed."

http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html#EXPOST

"ex post facto adj. Formulated, enacted, or operating retroactively."

This is, however, a limit on Congress.

Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by derefr on Friday March 19, 2010 @03:44AM (#1203622)
So, if someone invents a whole new kind of evil—say, simulating a universe composed purely of vingtillions of minds being tortured—they go free, even after a law is purpose-made to stop them—but the next guy to do it gets the wrap?
Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by michael_dorfman on Friday March 19, 2010 @04:55AM (#1203701)
Right. If what they do is not forbidden under existing law, no criminal charges can be brought against them.

Of course, if they harm people, those people can still file civil suits.

And, it would be quite surprising if the "whole new kind of evil" managed to harm people without falling into a category already prohibited by law (i.e., assault).

But, the point remains: you can't be charged for breaking a law that didn't exist at the time you broke it.

Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by mseebach on Friday March 19, 2010 @05:05AM (#1203712)
> say, simulating a universe composed purely of vingtillions of minds being tortured

No, you can't outlaw The Sims retroactively.

Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by stcredzero on Friday March 19, 2010 @08:51AM (#1204006)
Being tortured by being trapped in the pool and/or in houses without toilets?
Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by mseebach on Friday March 19, 2010 @10:47AM (#1204232)
Stuff like that. Inflicting slow and painful death for amusement.

Frankly, I didn't completely follow derefr's post .. Did he really suggest that there could be a need for laws to govern what happens to simulated minds?

Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by thwarted on Friday March 19, 2010 @11:20AM (#1204307)
Read the book Altered Carbon. People can switch bodies and their minds can be run in simulation and there are laws about running someone's mind in simulation just for the puroses of torture.
Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by mseebach on Friday March 19, 2010 @11:44AM (#1204362)
That's all very interesting, but the "fiction" part of "science fiction" is there for a reason.

And by the way, if you're somehow successful in removing my mind from my body and torturing it in a computer, current laws would apply just fine.

Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by anigbrowl on Friday March 19, 2010 @01:10PM (#1204587)
Unlike fantasy, the fictional aspect of SF is not permanent. Yesterday's personal communicator is today's smartphone.

Artificial intelligences with distinct personalities are not here yet, but I see no fundamental bounds to their creation and am pretty optimistic about the timeframe. The question of whether such intelligences qualify as people will become a pressing one at that time, even if it seems abstract to you now.

Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by stcredzero on Friday March 19, 2010 @12:13PM (#1204443)
Maybe not. The literal meaning of "Habeas Corpus" is "You have the body." Right now, there is no separation of mind and body in most legal systems.
Re:Should laws have built-in expiration dates by default? by randallsquared on Friday March 19, 2010 @09:14AM (#1204041)
That's not a new kind of evil at all. I'm not sure that new kinds of evil are even possible.

The idea that we need a separate law for every conceivable circumstance in which a kind of crime could be committed seems weird to me. Torturing people is already widely illegal; the kind of people need not be specified in law.