News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Detecting Money Laundering by rayiner on Sunday June 26, 2016 @09:49PM (#11983767)
But if you ordered some horseshoes made and then refused to take delivery, the blacksmith would still sue you in a government court.
Re:Detecting Money Laundering by yummyfajitas on Monday June 27, 2016 @12:18AM (#11984196)
There are a wide variety of commerce systems that require no government courts. Consider the Silent Trade, the old system used by Africans and Indians to trade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_trade

Realistically, in Colonial America, reputation systems and the like were probably used far more than courts.

In fact, even today, extra-legal systems are widely used. My company buys SAAS services primarily from the US and Australia, but we have little ability to use the courts in either of those countries. How do we know Atlassian or Cloudflare won't take our rupees and run?

Re:Detecting Money Laundering by defen on Monday June 27, 2016 @12:23AM (#11984202)
Back then, I highly doubt you would get sued. Your reputation would be ruined and you'd have trouble ordering anything else, but I think we're getting a bit away from the point I was trying to make.

"But even if that were true, in the world we do have, commerce is built upon the infrastructure provided by government. Just like the road system. And the government is thus entitled to regulate commerce just like it regulates left-hand turns on roads."

So by this argument, if the first amendment didn't exist, the government would have the right to regulate speech that uses public infrastructure (anything on public airwaves, the internet, delivered via the mail system, etc)? To make things more concrete, could the US government make a law "No one shall manufacture or sell a wallet"? (to pick the first thing that I saw).

Note that I personally am kind of ok with this, because the whole point of being sovereign is that you can do what you want; but I'm interested in exploring the justifications used to get people to buy into the system.

Re:Detecting Money Laundering by rayiner on Monday June 27, 2016 @12:27PM (#11987245)
> > Back then, I highly doubt you would get sued

Common law contract and tort principles were well-developed back then, and indeed were created for situations like ordering horseshoes from the village blacksmith, or ordering a new axle for your windmill.[1]

> So by this argument, if the first amendment didn't exist, the government would have the right to regulate speech that uses public infrastructure (anything on public airwaves, the internet, delivered via the mail system, etc)?

No, because the first amendment does not create the right to free speech, but recognizes a right to free speech that already existed. But if that wasn't the case, then I think the answer would be yes.

> So by this argument, if the first amendment didn't exist, the government would have the right to regulate speech that uses public infrastructure (anything on public airwaves, the internet, delivered via the mail system, etc)?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadley_v_Baxendale