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Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by toyg on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @07:53PM (#11906312)
The joys of IT. Back in the day, to wipe years of records you had to burn or shred tons of paper in multiple locations. Now you just crash one little system... Despite 20 years of Microsoft-induced crashes, clear best practices and yadda yadda, most organizations will still have a single backup system for any given data repository -- if they have one at all.

And the answer when shit happens is "outsource! Go to the cloud!" -- so that local managers won't be responsible when the snafu happens and data is lost (if it happens to Google, it can and will happen to anyone).

Progress, eh.

Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by bsurmanski on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @08:57PM (#11906524)
I would consider it progress.

The only data loss to Google that I was able to find was [0], where a single datacenter was hit by lightning 4 times in short succession, and 0.000001% of disk space in said datacenter was lost. And only because the lost data consisted of recent writes that had yet to be backed up. And only because the lightning affected the AUX power systems in a way that they have since committed to fixing (or perhaps have fixed).

IMO, cloud storage is the most reliable way to store data, and Google the most reliable. I never know if I'm going to drop my laptop and lose all work. Or if the harddrive in my server is going to give up and burst into flames. But the great thing about cloud storage is that it abstracts away hardware components and failures so it's somebody else's problem. And they worry a lot more about data loss than I do. Cloud data storage is designed with the assumption that hardware is faulty. Spread redundant copies of data to geographically isolated datacenters, and you're much safer than some admin of averagejoe.com keeping his data on a single harddrive in his closet.

[0] - https://status.cloud.google.com/incident/compute/15056#57195...

Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by toyg on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @09:35PM (#11906653)
The problem is not just DR, but anything that can result in data loss. There was the one where they'd delete stuff you didn't mean to [1], the one where they got stuff back by the scruff of the neck [2]... i can't be arsed to look further back, but I'm pretty sure shit happened earlier as well (and I'm just looking at GMail). And of course there are tons of horror stories about accounts disabled or deleted for commercial or other unspecified reasons, because once you put your trust in another entity, that's it, they can do as they please. Their track record might be as good as anyone's, but it still has a few holes and people should prepare for it rather than considering "the cloud" as a magic bucket.

(disclaimer: my life would probably be ruined by losing the gmail account I've held since private-beta days, because life is short and I'm shit at sysadmin; but there's a big difference between a lone old geek and large organizations...)

[1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2548010/Has-G...

[2] http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2011/03/01/googl...

Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by eru on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @03:22AM (#11907678)
I don't get the problem with [2]? The tape worked exactly as intended.
Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by Spooky23 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @09:54PM (#11906726)
The only thing between your data and /dev/null in a cloud data center is a vacation and expired credit card.
Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by thedudemabry on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @03:54AM (#11907775)
Thank goodness storage is cheap. I've had a revolving door of credit/debit card numbers over the last few years thanks to identity theft, and the SaaS providers I use for personal stuff are really good about keeping my data around even after invalid credit-card auto-pay cycles fail.

For more serious data, I have to imagine that SLAs generally define data retention periods even after exiting the agreement, right? (I legitimately don't know)

Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by Klathmon on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @06:48AM (#11908413)
This is also a bit "above my pay grade", but i've heard bits and pieces about how our company has some kind of agreement setup that if there is a billing dispute that there is a minimum amount of time that must pass before they can shut us down.

Obviously it doesn't help if the company goes under, but it's not as simple as the parent commenters statement.

Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by Spooky23 on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @05:29PM (#11912291)
It depends on the vendor. I negotiated a pretty big agreement a few years ago and were able to get the vendor to agree to hold data for a year after termination. We also backup to another provider.

That said, over the years I've witnessed all manner of billing and payment fuckups. I'm not trying to say that cloud is bad -- but that billing snafu is a risk factor that you need to understand and account for.

Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by Johnny555 on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @09:35PM (#11906652)
IMO, cloud storage is the most reliable way to store data, and Google the most reliable

Does Google publish any durability numbers? Amazon claims 99.999999999% (11 9's) for S3 and Glacier (and considerably worse for EBS volumes). How does Google compare?

Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by eru on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @03:23AM (#11907681)
Don't have numbers here, but it's pretty good, and we regularly move the data around and check it. (Ie it's not just rotting on a hard disk somewhere.)
Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by lazyant on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @10:24PM (#11906834)
one point anecdote: Google's Keep lost my data after it decided to upgrade itself (gone from phone and cloud). Just some notes but still.
Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by robbbbbbbbb on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @12:54AM (#11907217)
Check if they are in your archive. I thought it deleted mine too however I just found them in there.
Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by pslam on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @08:54PM (#11906519)
> The joys of IT. Back in the day, to wipe years of records you had to burn or shred tons of paper in multiple locations. Now you just crash one little system. [...] most organizations will still have a single backup system for any given data repository -- if they have one at all.

No, back in the day, you could still wipe years of records because most people only used a single filing cabinet with no duplication or off-site copies. "Destroyed in a fire" was the canonical way to destroy all records, easily. This story has nothing to do with the introduction of IT. Incompetence is still incompetence.

Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by chiph on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @09:24PM (#11906615)
16-18 million records destroyed in a fire in 1973:

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/fire-197...

Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by droopyEyelids on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @09:01PM (#11906539)
Fire? Why be so bombastic. All it takes is one mis-applied label to permanently destroy records in a large enough filing system.
Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by icebraining on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @03:35AM (#11907713)

  Bernard: Shall I file it?
  Hacker:  Shall you file it? Shred it!
  Bernard: Shred it?
  Hacker:  No one must ever be able to find it again!
  Bernard: In that case, Minister, I think it's best I file it.
Yes, Minister - The Death List
Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by thaumasiotes on Wednesday June 15, 2016 @05:59AM (#11908223)
Back in the day, in 2300 BC, records caught in fires were preserved forever, while records not so lucky eventually returned to the earth. (Barring the odd formal peace treaty inscribed in metal.)

We know a lot more about conquered Mesopotamian kingdoms than we do about successful ones, because step one after taking over a city was apparently burning it down, or at least burning down the palace.

Re:Computer Crash Wipes Out Years of Air Force Investigation... by Shivetya on Tuesday June 14, 2016 @08:50PM (#11906505)
It never ceases to amaze me how many teams have the idea that DR is simply buy some new hardware. sadly its not just a government failing.