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Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by kahnpro on Friday June 10, 2016 @12:09PM (#11877398)
Ugh. Does anybody else just feel that patents simply shouldn't be transferable?
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by brwnll on Friday June 10, 2016 @02:58PM (#11878982)
This was my initial thought. But after consideration this would likely to just lead to companies creating holding/shell companies for groups of patents.

Effectively, Big Corp would spin up "Obvious Shopping Cart Patents, LLC", wholly owned by Big Corp, and register their patents for a given category through it. Then they could sell the entire company to another entity without the patents themselves transferring ownership.

The best fix for patents I can think of is simply lowering their lifetime to somewhere in the 2 - 5 year range.

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by placeybordeaux on Friday June 10, 2016 @06:07PM (#11880488)
Thats too short for some fields. The real problem is that tech moves so fast that a lot of the assumptions and hard coded values in the law simply don't work in tech.
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by CydeWeys on Friday June 10, 2016 @05:10PM (#11880050)
Longer lived patents totally make sense in other industries, though. Look at the pace of innovation in, say, space exploration. It can take longer than two years just to build and test a new rocket design, so if your patent expired before your first real launch, it would have huge chilling effects on R&D.

I'd say a better solution is to just make software ineligible for patents entirely.

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by burkaman on Friday June 10, 2016 @12:16PM (#11877460)
Wouldn't that remove one of the major purposes of patents? Right now they provide pretty good motivation to develop something that you don't personally have the ability or desire to commercialize. If you can't sell the patent, you'll either not invent anything, or sit on your inventions for a long time until you feel like starting a business.
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by jacquesm on Friday June 10, 2016 @12:21PM (#11877506)
The major purpose of the patent as it is exploited today in the tech world has long surpassed its original purpose. Patents are like weapons-of-mutually-assured-destruction. You engage your patents, I'll engage mine. And so, we cross-license and get on with our merry lives to the detriment of our mutual competitors. This suits large businesses very well.

In the 'real' (as in physical) world there are still some good patents issued. But for computer related stuff (and that's what the bulk of Yahoo!'s patents will be about it has been quite a while since I saw a patent that made me think 'good that someone spent the years required in order to come up with this and that their rights are protected with a patent'.

I'd suggest a retro-active limitation of patents that do not involve anything physical of 3 years. That should be enough of a head-start and will immediately take care of all these ticking time bombs of patent portfolios in the hands of aging and ailing Leviathans.

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by mcherm on Friday June 10, 2016 @12:58PM (#11877780)
No, I think it is important to be able to transfer patents. The original inventor is not necessarily the person best qualified to license and exploit a patent.

On the other hand, I think that software and business methods should not be eligible for patent protection at all.

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by jessaustin on Friday June 10, 2016 @02:34PM (#11878762)
The original inventor is not necessarily the person best qualified to license and exploit a patent.

A lot of nonsense is swept in under this seemingly reasonable cover story. If I can't build a device that embodies my invention, in what sense have I really invented it?

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by icebraining on Friday June 10, 2016 @02:58PM (#11878980)
You might be able to build a device, while not having the cash nor will to build a company around producing and selling thousands of copies of that device.

I dislike patents in general and software in particular, but that one can invent yet not commercialize is not farfetched.

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by alienasa on Friday June 10, 2016 @03:15PM (#11879141)
I'd argue that if the device is sufficiently "novel" then the cash and will to build a company around producing and selling that device en masse will magically appear.

On the other hand, if Bob invents something, but chooses not to produce it, then he's effectively relinquishing his rights to patent protection.

When we allow Bob to simply transfer his "invention" (an idea basically) to Patent Corp. in exchange for cash, and Patent Corp then uses that to extort people, we massively incentivize dreaming up random ideas in the hope of getting them patented. That incentive exists whether or not the idea is a good one, practical, effective or any other characteristics that reasonable people use to evaluate things.

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by sgt101 on Friday June 10, 2016 @05:23PM (#11880142)
Ok - Bob invents something. Bob visits venture capitalists, Bob shows patent. VC's say: here is many money. Bob! form the company for patent! Bob makes company. VC's say : given patent to company; Bob you get 49% we get 51%. Bob, he is cryin', but Bob - he do! Then COMPANY have patent, patent have MONEY, many many good sales! Incentive fulfilled! Company tank. Bob say "give patent to others" VC say : auction patent. THE END.
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by kmiroslav on Friday June 10, 2016 @01:44PM (#11878283)
To some extent. I think they should only be transferred in the case of an acquisition of the company or if the buyer can show that their business is aligned with the patent being bought.

Such restrictions would kill the patent troll business overnight.

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by mkagenius on Friday June 10, 2016 @01:56PM (#11878405)
> Such restrictions would kill the patent troll business overnight.

That would be one solution. But the cause of the patent trolling is not the transferrable patents - its the human nature. There will always be some humans finding _some_ way to make money instead of thinking of doing the _right_ thing.

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by bluedevil2k on Friday June 10, 2016 @12:25PM (#11877540)
Or the period of monopoly should be reduced, to something like 5 years from transfer date, or original expiration date, whichever is sooner. Would reduce the incentive to sell them around, and increase the incentive for the original "inventor" to utilize them.
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by Aelinsaar on Friday June 10, 2016 @01:50PM (#11878351)
As a general rule, that seems like it would cripple commerce. In some specialized sense, say patents near the end of their lives, which meet a host of other conditions that make them likely fodder only for trolling... maybe. Who would reliably make those regulatory calls though, and what would be the blowback?
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by cloudjacker on Friday June 10, 2016 @12:21PM (#11877510)
Nah

There is no way that my improvement to the derivatives market would have ever been worth my time if I couldn't sell the patent to financial institutions.

People that have never had a good idea in their life imagine that patent holders are making widgets in their woodshed, or have the ability to make said widget in their woodshed.

But the reality is that there was no way I could ever have commercialized this in a way that had so few risks, aside from my ability to cough up $12,000 at the time.

Yeah let me just go recreate the financial derivatives market and lobby Congress for the rest of my life just so that children on reddit won't call me a patent troll.

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by ori_b on Friday June 10, 2016 @12:53PM (#11877748)
> There is no way that my improvement to the derivatives market would have ever been worth my time if I couldn't sell the patent to financial institutions.

Not even if you could grant them a license, but not ownership?

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by cloudjacker on Friday June 10, 2016 @02:23PM (#11878669)
It was an option.

I probably wouldn't have pursued the patent if that was the only option. Unless the costs to filing patents were also cheaper. Lots of variables that this simple discussion doesn't consider.

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by ConfuciusSay02 on Friday June 10, 2016 @01:06PM (#11877841)
Well if a change in the patent system would have negatively affected cloudjacker on HN, then we obviously can't make any reforms to the system.

Sorry guys!

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by cloudjacker on Friday June 10, 2016 @01:56PM (#11878413)
that wasn't what the parent question was at all, so that is an invalid conclusion to make as your sarcasm is a satire on truth
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by dsacco on Friday June 10, 2016 @12:35PM (#11877613)
You don't have any contact information in your profile, but is there any chance you'd be willing to talk about what the process was like for you to sell this?
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by jessaustin on Friday June 10, 2016 @02:39PM (#11878825)
Or even provide enough info for us to determine that this is a real example we ought to seriously consider, rather than simply a hypothetical bullshit discussion-thread thought experiment? If any market segment could offer a variety of remunerative options for innovation other than a patent, surely it is finance? Indeed most actual financial innovations would never be patented, rather than kept secret under strict NDA.
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by cloudjacker on Friday June 10, 2016 @03:47PM (#11879435)
laughing all the way to the literal bank on this one

I would almost give you a pass for saying "most" if not for noticing that my patent cites other "actual financial innovations" that financial institutions filed as patents and got approved, popular opinion on the internet lives in a separate reality than any framework this country functions on

Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by dsacco on Friday June 10, 2016 @10:00PM (#11881615)
So is that a no to my original question? I'm actually interested in hearing about your high-level methodology for networking a patent to a sale. I'm not interested in debating the ethics or legal framework that allowed you to do so.
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by Nullabillity on Friday June 10, 2016 @08:27PM (#11881273)
Did that "improvement" really improve the lives of anyone else than you and the people owning that bank? Should it really be something that the government encourages?
Re:Yahoo: Patent Sell-Off Isn’t a Fire Sale by cloudjacker on Saturday June 11, 2016 @01:11AM (#11882174)
the government encourages people to not duplicate effort, the purpose of patents is to encourage people to disclose an invention so that other people don't reinvent the wheel, the incentive being that you get a monopoly on the wheel for a limited time

software of course iterates much faster than other inventions, meaning a 19 year monopoly can really stifle the industry

thats the only debate on patents, software applicability