Selfishness Is Learned: We tend to be cooperative unless we think too much

Re:Selfishness Is Learned: We tend to be cooperative unless ... by alttab on Thursday June 09, 2016 @03:18PM (#11871625)

I too believe there is some meat on the bones of psychological egoism [1], the thought that altruism in its most purest sense doesn't really exist, because there is personal benefit (feeling good) to being altruistic.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_egoism

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Re:Selfishness Is Learned: We tend to be cooperative unless ... by jessriedel on Thursday June 09, 2016 @04:22PM (#11872074)

The arguments that soundly defeat all the pure forms of psychological egoism are available in the criticism section. The guy who lays down in front of the tank isn't being selfish in any reasonable sense of the word, and most attempts to rescue the claim end up trivializing it, by simply calling any goal-oriented behavior "selfish", even when those goals are clearly not for one's own benefit.

There are more defensible forms of psychological egoism, but your summary ("there is personal benefit (feeling good) to being altruistic") doesn't work.

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Re:Selfishness Is Learned: We tend to be cooperative unless ... by sbuttgereit on Thursday June 09, 2016 @04:17PM (#11872044)

Feeling good about being benevolent is the least transgression for an altruist. I would argue that being fully consistent when it comes to living philosophically altruistic is only possible if you're prepared to die for it (quickly).

Think about it, every time you take a bite of food, you act selfishly. I guarantee you if you look hard enough you will find someone that is more starved than you are when you take that bite.... even if you, yourself are starving. How much more selfless and altruistic can you be than to give all the food you would otherwise eat for the benefit of your fellow man that otherwise would starve? (nevermind what it says about them to accept your sacrifice). How can you not be selfish when you choose to service your own need of nourishment, no matter how little you take, over choosing to feed those others that need it more.

Egoism on the other hand doesn't mean that you don't cooperate. It doesn't mean that you can't be benevolent. True, it doesn't demand any of that from you, but in the long view and all other things being equal, it's usually in your interest to cooperate and to be benevolent.

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Re:Selfishness Is Learned: We tend to be cooperative unless ... by tremon on Thursday June 09, 2016 @07:48PM (#11873253)

being fully consistent when it comes to living philosophically altruistic is only possible if you're prepared to die for it (quickly).

Imagine you're the only skilled baker in town. Does your community benefit more from you when you starve yourself to death, or when you keep producing food for them?

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Re:Selfishness Is Learned: We tend to be cooperative unless ... by alttab on Saturday June 11, 2016 @12:22AM (#11882044)

I took this specific quote as killing yourself is the most merciful thing you could do for others. Dark indeed.

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Re:Selfishness Is Learned: We tend to be cooperative unless ... by sbardle on Thursday June 09, 2016 @03:32PM (#11871716)

Biz Stone talks about selflessness being selfish because altruistic acts release the same chemicals in the brain as winning money, apparently. I help out at a local work group restoring old buildings. It's only a morning a month but it puts a smile on my face for the rest of the day, partly because I enjoy the work but mainly because I am volunteering.

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Re:Selfishness Is Learned: We tend to be cooperative unless ... by Avshalom on Thursday June 09, 2016 @04:35PM (#11872176)

Yeah but I mean that logic works in reverse too. And altruism has a couple million years head start on 'winning money' when it comes to fundamental motivators.

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