News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by downandout on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @04:42PM (#11865494)
Here's a fun little video from the manufacturer extolling the virtues and showing a demo of their device: https://youtu.be/XYbgnCi7NYI

These are some truly evil people. Apparently they can only target prepaid cards with this thing, which unsurprisingly will disproportionately affect people with lower incomes (the "unbanked"). According to the manufacturer's FAQ [1]:

Intel™ and ERAD-Recovery™ will only retrieve balances from open loop prepaid debit cards. Debit cards attached to a valid checking account or valid credit cards cannot be processed using the ERAD-Intel™ or ERAD-Recovery™ system.

Law enforcement already depends heavily upon lower income neighborhoods to justify their existence, and upon criminal convictions of poor people that can't defend themselves to keep up demand for prison and jail guards. Now they want to take the money of those they can't arrest, knowing that their targets cannot afford to hire lawyers to get it back.

[1] https://www.erad-group.com/faqs

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by cornchips on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @07:02PM (#11866383)
Yes, evil. As is Sergeant Rob Hain (of Chicago) who uploaded this...

"Sheriff's Deputy Ron Hain improperly detained Marsh after issuing him a warning and continued questioning him when he should have been free to leave, Barsanti ruled. The questioning led to Marsh's admission he was carrying a gun, which prompted further searches of his truck, phones, GPS and eventually the storage lockers."

"The discovery was made by exploiting the defendant's Fourth Amendment rights," Barsanti said. "He was illegally detained in a second seizure without cause." [1]

"Seized over 4,000 lbs of cannabis, over 50 kilograms of cocaine, over 50 kilograms of heroin, and over $1,000,000 of drug-related currency." [2]

1 https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20160406/news/160409204/

2 https://archive.is/Bf1ss

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by downandout on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @09:05PM (#11866901)
From [1]....“All of our home towns are sitting on a tax-liberating gold mine,” Deputy Ron Hain of Kane County, Ill., wrote in a self-published book under a pseudonym. Hain is a marketing specialist for Desert Snow, a leading interdiction training firm based in Guthrie, Okla., whose founders also created Black Asphalt.

Desert Snow created civil forfeiture training seminars for law enforcement. Black Asphalt is a system "that enabled police nationwide to share detailed reports about American motorists — criminals and the innocent alike — including their Social Security numbers, addresses and identifying tattoos, as well as hunches about which drivers to stop."

Now, he's stealing debit cards. This guy is quite the civil forfeiture innovator.

[1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/st...

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by cornchips on Thursday June 09, 2016 @02:53AM (#11867960)
Owning a business related and supposedly selling to law enforcement while being employed by the force... Conflict of interest, anyone?
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by slavik81 on Thursday June 09, 2016 @12:41PM (#11870535)
That's probably only a conflict on interest if they are involved in making purchasing decisions. Your mileage may vary. Always ask your ethics councillor.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by tamana on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @09:29PM (#11866999)
I know legal protections apply to criminals, but it is hard to win a political battle against the cops who busted a big time dealer of life-destroying drugs (heroin)
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by Gibbon1 on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @11:38PM (#11867388)
Among the friends I knew the body count is

Prescription Drugs: 2 Alcohol: 3 Heroin: 0 Methamphetamine: 0 Cannabis: 0

Two people I know. Their brothers both died from Oxycontin(tm). Specifically pulmonary talcosis. You get pulmonary talcosis from the talc government made the manufacturer add specifically to kill junkies.

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by Unklejoe on Thursday June 09, 2016 @12:43AM (#11867605)
I personally knew 5 people who have died from a drug overdose, and that drug was heroin in all 5 cases.

They all actually started off by abusing prescription opiates, but moved to heroin after they ran out of money.

However, my area is known for being a heroin hot spot. I live in a decent middle class town about 15 minutes away from Camden, NJ. My high school was known as "heroin high".

The problem with heroin is that there's very poor quality control. Overdoses seem to occur under one of the two following circumstances:

1. The person just gets released from rehab and relapses. Their tolerance isn't what it used to be, so their body gets shocked.

2. There's a sudden spike in the strength of the heroin that is "going around". The person may be used to a certain strength, so the more powerful batch can be enough to send them over the edge.

Just figured I'd add my own personal data points since it seemed like you were trying to deemphasize the danger of heroin by pointing out that you don't know anyone who died from it. Maybe, that wasn't your intention, so forgive me if so.

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by freditup on Thursday June 09, 2016 @01:17AM (#11867690)
I was in downtown Camden, NJ once a couple years ago, being given a tour by a black pastor who's focus was on helping the poor of Camden turn away from drug addictions. (Point being, he knew the city very well, and knew its drug problem very well.)

It was an absolutely astonishing time. Camden literally felt like it had just been through a war: desolate buildings, so many people homeless on the streets, people desperate for food. It's hard to describe just how bad this city was.

I can't diagnose all the root causes behind why Camden is so messed-up, but this pastor pointed to the heroin epidemic primarily.

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by arca_vorago on Thursday June 09, 2016 @03:43AM (#11868090)
If you haven't seen any of his work, Chris Hedges has written and spoken pretty extensively on Camden and Camdenesque cities. Heartbreaking stuff.

You know, it always stuck in my craw that so much of the heroin in the new epidemic came/comes from Afghanistan... Shades of Vietnam.

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by freditup on Thursday June 09, 2016 @10:54AM (#11869769)
I'm not familiar with his work, I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion!
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by voidz on Thursday June 09, 2016 @01:38AM (#11867738)
Mhm. I'll bite. Got a source? Government wants kill people who use a lot of Oxycontin to kill the people who snort it or something?
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by thaumasiotes on Thursday June 09, 2016 @02:45AM (#11867935)
I could not verify this particular claim in under an hour of online searching. Relevant facts:

Oxycontin used to contain talc, and this came with prominent health warnings. Shooting up dissolved oxycontin pills containing talc is dangerous. See http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/drugsatfda_docs/label/2008/020... ("with parenteral abuse, the [inactive ingredients], especially talc, can be expected to result in [many bad things]").

As of some time in 2014, oxycontin no longer contains talc -- it has been replaced by magnesium stearate. However, that health warning that parenteral abuse causes many bad things has not been altered except to remove the phrase "especially talc". Pulmonary granulomas are still specifically called out as something bad that will happen to you if you inject oxycontin. See the current usage information at http://app.purduepharma.com/xmlpublishing/pi.aspx?id=o .

SPECULATIVELY: this means that while talc is no longer present, oxycontin might still contain legally-mandated adulteration. I found no evidence for a legal mandate, but this was not a comprehensive investigation.

It has long been the explicit policy of the United States that people who abuse otherwise legal chemicals deserve to be poisoned to death, and we have had and do have laws to this effect. See http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_exa... .

It's that last point that makes me hesitate to slam your parent comment for fearmongering.

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by Atwood on Thursday June 09, 2016 @09:30AM (#11869218)
It was not simply the consolidation of our petroleum interests we were after, no? Hamid Karzai (our man) afforded us unprecedented access to humans favorite narcotic. Poof! An unprecedented alkaloid epidemic.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by sokoloff on Thursday June 09, 2016 @10:26AM (#11869562)
Acetaminophen is added to many prescription opiates in part to prevent abuse. (There's some question as to whether it aids in pain reduction beyond what the opiate would provide, but it certainly has near term implications for severe abuse.)
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by tripzilch on Thursday June 09, 2016 @01:03PM (#11870673)
There's no question. Unlike, say, ibuprofen and acetaminophen, there is no "synergy bonus".

The added pain reduction effect of acetaminophen stands in no relation to what the opioid is doing. There's no research anywhere showing that the combined effect is any more than the literal addition of taking both (for which there would be no reason if you could just as easily take a tiny bit more of the opioid that you'd be taking any way).

All it does is take away an addict's choice not to wreck their liver. And the system encourages the availability of this unnecessarily dangerous substance by awarding it a less restrictive drug schedule.

The incentives are rather twisted in this particular case.

edit

> but it certainly has near term implications for severe abuse.

the implications being death and permanent liver damage (it's not actually stopping addicts). but looking only at the numbers, it seems to limit abuse, even in the near term. ugh.

edit 2 seeing some of the other comments, apparently it's not just this particular case. I only knew about this one

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by Crito on Thursday June 09, 2016 @12:38AM (#11867589)
Heroin: 4 Alcohol: 3

Just because you don't know anyone that heroin has killed, doesn't mean it isn't a problem.

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by drewgross on Thursday June 09, 2016 @01:08PM (#11870707)
How about the friends who died of the drug as a fraction of the friends who used the drug? If you don't know anyone who uses heroin, this post is meaningless.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by killbrad on Thursday June 09, 2016 @12:39AM (#11867592)
Just a minor note, he is not from Chicago - it's not even in the same county as Chicago.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by cornchips on Thursday June 09, 2016 @02:34AM (#11867893)
Yeah, people outside of Chicago tend to associate themselves with the big city... What they should really be saying is the "uncultured area of Bumblefuck around Chicago".

That ERAD won't be of any use in Austin or Englewood at 2am...

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by retrogradeorbit on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @10:59PM (#11867282)
One swallow doesn't make a summer.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by walrus01 on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @10:53PM (#11867263)
> will only retrieve balances from open loop prepaid debit cards

so the poor get fucked two ways:

1) these prepaid debit cards have a lot of fees and service charges associated with them, they're basically in the same financial category for the "unbanked" as predatory payday loans, check cashing places and other financial services retail operations you see in a ghetto.

2) the people who have these cards with some balance on them risk getting all their money jacked by the local police.

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by adrr on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @06:26PM (#11866179)
I wonder if it works on payroll cards that many low income people get in lieu of a traditional payday check. They are very similar to prepaid debit cards.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by downandout on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @06:30PM (#11866202)
In almost cases, payroll cards are just prepaid cards that an employer has setup with a given prepaid card company for employees that don't have bank accounts, so yes.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by adrr on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @06:34PM (#11866231)
Scary. These prepaid debit cards are being used everywhere in lieu of traditional checks from unemployment benefits, short term disability(maternity benefits) etc.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by orbitingpluto on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @08:04PM (#11866689)
The thing that I don't understand is that these prepaid debit cards are only loaded from the government or your employer, hence guaranteeing the money is legal. Yet these cards are what is being targeted, because only the poor use them.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by tamana on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @09:30PM (#11867004)
What's not to understand? Money is money, it spends just as well regardless of who gave it to you.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by orbitingpluto on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @09:42PM (#11867052)
These cards are predatory because they have fees to withdraw, fees to not have the card expire and your money go poof, and even fees to even check your balance.

Some states have enacted laws (Illinois is one I believe) that prohibits employers using these cards if the employee does not wish to use one.

Employers use these cards because the debit card providers are willing to take on the cost of payroll for the privilege of gouging the employees in fees.

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by Delmania on Friday June 10, 2016 @09:34AM (#11876202)
From your previous post:

> Yet these cards are what is being targeted, because only the poor use them.

Same reason as this:

>Employers use these cards because the debit card providers are willing to take on the cost of payroll for the privilege of gouging the employees in fees.

The poor do not have the ability to fight back, and their employers have the resources to make sure the gov't does not shut these things down and require proper paychecks. Never underestimate the rich's ability to exploit the poor.

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by earlz on Thursday June 09, 2016 @10:01AM (#11869402)
Yep, grew up and have friends/family in Oklahoma. Disability and unemployment benefits come on prepaid cards, as well as tax refunds.

Most ATMs charge a fee to check balance, and a separate fee to withdraw money as cash. These cards do usually have a free phone number you can call to check balance, but you almost always have to pay a fee for withdrawal. And if you have, say, $19 on the card, it's effectively impossible to get that out as cash, because no ATM lets you withdraw in less than $20 increments.

Also, most blue-collar and minimum wage jobs use prepaid cards. At least companies like McDonald's as well as various factory jobs do. For McDonald's, according to friends at least, there is no option for anything else. Even if you have a bank account, you can't do direct deposit, you still get a prepaid debit card that your paycheck goes to.

Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by emkman on Thursday June 09, 2016 @04:21AM (#11868192)
Actually, they aren't the same. Payroll debit cards are protected by certain provisions that don't apply to GPR (general purpose reloadable) debit cards. Thankfully they have fewer predatory fees and it's required that 100% of the pay amount is put on the card. They can still be subject to very high ATM fees, and possibly inactivity fees (since the provider doesn't earn any interchange fees if the card isn't swiped. I can't recall all the details but I looked into implementing both versions at a previous job.
Re:Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or ... by downandout on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @11:46PM (#11867411)
Just noticed my typo, but its too late to fix. I was torn between "almost all cases" and "most cases" and wound up with "almost cases" lol.