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Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by tptacek on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @12:21PM (#11855504)
If you believe that sshd might harbor a preauth RCE --- something that hasn't happened in a very long time --- then deploy real security in front of it: stick it on the other end of a simple encrypted tunnel.
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by rsync on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @01:14PM (#11855916)
I agree that port knocking is not the christ child. It will not solve world hunger nor will it allow the wolves to lay down with the lambs.

But it's something.

Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by CiPHPerCoder on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @02:30PM (#11856604)
It's the ROT13 of defense mechanisms.
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by crpatino on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @08:10PM (#11859080)
ROT13 would stop and attacker peeking over everybody's documents, one doc per second, in search for something interesting to actually devote time and resources on.

You have to decide if the tradeoff between a thousand bot's scans and a sole eavesdropper noticing the knocking pattern and marking your host as "(incompetently) trying to hide" is really worth it.

Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by vacri on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @05:35PM (#11858094)
One commenter on a previous iteration of this argument said that moving the port (not port knocking per se) made the access logs quieter, and that was reason enough for their use.

Edit: heh, same thing is going on a few comments down :)

Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by drudru11 on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @05:22PM (#11857977)
What would you recommend?
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by CiPHPerCoder on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @05:34PM (#11858084)
SSH key with public key auth over VPN.
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by RawInfoSec on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @11:34AM (#11862912)
Restrict SSH access inbound to trusted networks only. Then you don't have to worry about all this hoopla.
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by lima on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @08:03AM (#11861599)
> It's the ROT13 of defense mechanisms.

Not true. Modern port knocking is provably secure and requires network layer attacks to bypass.

Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by drudru11 on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @05:21PM (#11857974)
What software is this "simple encrypted tunnel"?
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by tptacek on Tuesday June 07, 2016 @05:35PM (#11858089)
Any of them. Try spiped.
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by lima on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @08:03AM (#11861596)
More attack surface, not less.
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by dchest on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @09:35AM (#11862156)
Picture time!

More surface (both spiped and ssh are accepting connections):

     |
  →  |ssh
     |
  →  |spiped

Less surface (spipe accepts connection, ssh is behind it):

                 |
  →  | spiped  ↝ | ssh
                 |

With proper configuration, spiped sits in front of ssh, authenticating and decrypting traffic and passing it to ssh.

spiped is a tiny program, uses symmetric crypto (small surface). SSH isn't a tiny program, uses more complex asymmetric crypto (larger surface).

To learn more: http://www.daemonology.net/blog/2011-07-04-spiped-secure-pip...

To learn how to put it in front of SSH, see https://github.com/Tarsnap/spiped#example-usage

Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by michaelrash on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @10:11AM (#11862364)
There are some similarities between this and SPA:

-> | SPA / fwknop | ssh

There are important differences too though (beyond the fact that SPA is not encrypting/decrypting traffic for SSH itself). SPA is a UDP authenticator so it cannot be scanned.

Design goals: http://www.cipherdyne.org/fwknop/docs/fwknop-tutorial.html#d...

Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by tptacek on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @01:19PM (#11863852)
No, SPA is the first picture: both SPA and OpenSSH are directly responsive to attacker communications. I don't think "attack surface" is the dispositive argument here (the fact that SPA doesn't protect OpenSSH connections at all is), but either way: SPA is inferior to spiped.
Re:Obscurity Is a Valid Security Layer by michaelrash on Wednesday June 08, 2016 @01:38PM (#11863998)
Not exactly. OpenSSH gated by SPA can only be interacted with by an attacker that can either hijack an SPA-authenticated connection, or is on the same network as the SPA client if the client must go through a NAT. This is a fairly limited set of possible attackers. For those not in this set, how can they interact with OpenSSH without first breaking SPA?