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Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by e12e on Saturday June 04, 2016 @03:54AM (#11835430)
Yeah, first they threw out xmpp, so I couldn't use my preffered messaging app, then they kill messaging in the web view, forcing me to give up messaging or move to their messaging app, with intrusive permissions. This after they've soundly established that they don't respect users, with how they mangled addressbooks with an earlier version of the fb app.

At least, since they're closing access from alternative sources, they're slowly succeeding in driving me off facebook. At least if I now have to move to an app, I'll pick one that supports end-to-end encryption (which facebook+xmpp+otr did fine, btw, until they killed it).

I wonder how quickly things will turn in the coming decades, as the incumbent network silos continue to screw users on the altar of data mining and ad revenue, and anyone can start a competing product for free (up to ~thousands of users at least, and at that point, maybe you can find a monetization strategy or get investment to keep going until your product becomes another "big thing").

As far as I can gather, XMPP is pretty much a dead end at this point, Google Wave is open, but also dead as a spec. So what'll presumably happen, is that eventually someone will find a new, sane, extensible and open protocol, and it will take over. We now know some things that other protocols were missing: easy serialization, sane hypermedia, sane extensions, sane push, sane presence, sane async and sync modes (mail and im w/server side archiving) end to end encryption, and some form of trust or other way to mitigate spam. I'm guessing it'll be json based with perhaps swappable transport. Probably should be encapsulated in message-level authenticated encryption. And it'll probably be another five years before we see it realized.

Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by keverets on Saturday June 04, 2016 @07:42AM (#11835965)
I still use XMPP to connect to google talk and converse with people who are using hangouts. I use "Conversations" on Android, which works well and also supports OMEMO (the XMPP version of the encryption behind Signal/Whatsapp/etc). I'm effectively doing the equivalent of your facebook+xmpp+otr setup today, but it's googlechat+xmpp+omemo.

The author of Conversations recently wrote up the state of XMPP in 2016: https://gultsch.de/xmpp_2016.html

So, though you may not be using it anymore, XMPP is far from a dead end.

Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by e12e on Saturday June 04, 2016 @02:40PM (#11837432)
I thought Google had killed off all XMPP access too. Thanks for the heads up. Of course, everyone I communicate with who doesn't just use email and/or sms/phone are on Facebook (and Snapchat) - but few if any use hangouts. But it's nice to know that if I go back to using XMPP, I can at least point people towards hangouts. Until Allo takes over anyway...

[ed: submitted that to hn, as I'm sure many people would be interested in an update on XMPP from someone that actually works with XMPP implementations:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11837466 ]

Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by rhaps0dy on Saturday June 04, 2016 @02:45PM (#11837450)
> how they mangled addressbooks with an earlier version of the fb app

Oh right, I didn't know they have my whole Android address book before. I recommend you to download the data Facebook has about you (they don't give all, but a fair amount) https://www.facebook.com/help/302796099745838

I was actually surprised at the sheer amount of my personal life contained in that file.

Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by shawn-butler on Saturday June 04, 2016 @04:44AM (#11835549)
Please stop calling it google wave.

It is Apache wave. And nothing is dead if a community wants it to be alive.

Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by e12e on Saturday June 04, 2016 @05:07AM (#11835610)
Apologies, I remember it as Google Wave - but you are right it has evolved, and Apache Wave captures the idea that it is indeed an open platform. And while I agree that the technology isn't dead, I don't think it (the protocol) is likely to be what ~7 billion people (or how many now has a phone number) will use to communicate across network providers, carriers, device manufactures and content silos. I think it is dead as an alternative in that sense.
Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by newscracker on Sunday June 05, 2016 @02:26PM (#11842310)
> As far as I can gather, XMPP is pretty much a dead end at this point, Google Wave is open, but also dead as a spec. So what'll presumably happen, is that eventually someone will find a new, sane, extensible and open protocol, and it will take over.

I really, really would like to see this happen, but if the past decade and a half is any indication, the ones taking over will be newer centralized, ad monetized systems. Most of the non-tech people don't care much about privacy or lock-in. I keep trying very often to explain to people why privacy is important and why platforms like FB/WhatsApp, etc., are not good. It's an uphill battle though, and most people don't get it or feel it's too much of a hassle to change their habits and that of the people in their networks.

Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by webvictim on Saturday June 04, 2016 @08:19AM (#11836061)
The Facebook app on Android actually works fine without any special permissions. If you disable them all via the new methods in Marshmallow, it just continues trucking on. Of course they'll never stop asking for the extra permissions, but its functionality is pretty equivalent to the mobile site even with no intrusive permissions.
Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by Zak on Saturday June 04, 2016 @08:22PM (#11838971)
The Facebook app is a memory hog though, and was causing UI lag in other apps on my phone. I have very little idea how it was doing that, but when I removed it, the lag stopped.
Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by VintageCool on Saturday June 04, 2016 @11:28PM (#11839493)
I uninstalled the Facebook Messenger app about 3 months ago when I saw a news article about how it devoured battery on Android, because I was having battery life problems at the time.
Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by Zak on Sunday June 05, 2016 @11:49AM (#11841527)
I just removed Messenger in favor of the Facebook Lite app, which can be found on APK mirror sites if Google Play doesn't offer it. There does seem to be a significant improvement in idle battery drain.
Re:Facebook disabling messaging in its mobile web app to pus... by e12e on Saturday June 04, 2016 @02:36PM (#11837410)
Good to know. I've yet gotten around to trying this out (just recently upgraded to a Marshmellow phone), I feared it was install > grant permssions > optionally revoke permissions. And I wasn't ready to try that with an app that came out of fb, given their track record.

Maybe that's an idea for an open source Android demo app - one that requests a certain set of (or all possible) permissions, and then simply displays the status of those permissions (granted/blocked).