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Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by andkon on Thursday May 26, 2016 @01:09AM (#11775618)
A rich person acted out his retributive fantasies by paying a law team for years to trawl through everything Gawker put out in search of litigable offenses. That's unethical on the part of the lawyers, probably, and on the part of Thiel, certainly. He never had a chance to win any personal verdict, so he went nuclear. There's no way that won't have a chilling effect on other media companies who consider whether or not to cover the stupid shit that rich people do.

And it was cheap for him - around $10mm to bankrupt his mortal enemy. There's no way that other rich folks aren't going to do it as well, especially now that he's framing it as a philanthropic act.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by bogomipz on Thursday May 26, 2016 @01:39AM (#11775771)
Trade "rich person" for "powerful media outlet" and Gawker is the bully. And it's been cheap for Gawker over the years with their 40 million in revenue to throw any hapless victims to the wolves if they thought that it would sell advertising. And guess what it was cheap for them. How many people didn't have the money or resources to take Gawker on?
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by andkon on Thursday May 26, 2016 @11:24AM (#11778618)
The question was about whether or not it was ethical for Thiel to do what he did. Saying that Gawker did something bad to other people does not mean Thiel has an obligation to do anything, nor does it say that he acted ethically to do what he did.
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by ElComradio on Thursday May 26, 2016 @01:17AM (#11775665)
You make him sound like someone who is filing frivolous lawsuits. The Hogan case involves an outrageous invasion of privacy of extremely dubious newsworthiness, nothing at all like, say, outing a lesbian congresswoman who supports traditional marriage legislation. He's not going through looking for possible gotchas; these cases are pretty clear cut.
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by andkon on Thursday May 26, 2016 @01:30AM (#11775725)
He didn't file a frivolous lawsuit. He decided to not file a frivolous lawsuit, and instead to fund every viable lawsuit he could purely so he could bankrupt a media company that had covered him very unfavourably in the past. He'll probably keep doing it, if more such cases pop up.

He isn't on Hulk Hogan's side. He's on his side, and he won. Making this about the particulars of Hogan's case is deliberately eliding the fact that Thiel didn't give a shit about Hogan's case other than that it could bankrupt Gawker.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by ElComradio on Thursday May 26, 2016 @01:40AM (#11775778)
If in fact there are other viable cases, in the absence of Thiel the injustice would then be that Gawker can behave badly indefinitely because most of the victims will not pay the necessary amount to litigate.
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by imgabe on Thursday May 26, 2016 @10:05AM (#11778028)
If Gawker hadn't published anything litigable, they wouldn't have had any problems. If there is a litigable claim, there should be at least the possibility that the person who is being litigated against has done something wrong. Who cares about the motives of the person exposing the wrongdoing as long as it's accurate?
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by andkon on Thursday May 26, 2016 @11:21AM (#11778589)
There are a few ways this argument can play out:

1. You have a moral obligation to litigate moral wrongs, whether or not they happened to you. Since rich people have more money and hence more things are litigable to them, they have a moral obligation to litigate more things. In this view, Thiel obviously did the wrong thing: he avoided litigating moral wrongs for years while waiting for the right case to come up strictly about Gawker. He failed to act ethically, under this model.

2. It is morally permissible to litigate moral or even legal wrongs that were not committed to you. It being permissible means it's a supererogatory feature of your moral life, in that you don't have to do it. It goes beyond the call of duty to sue Gawker for what they did to Hogan. But without a moral obligation to do so, you can't say that it could ever override your other obligations to behave ethically. Retribution, which this clearly was, is not an obviously ethical motive that would mean we should wholesale excuse what Thiel did—even though it may have been a good act to punish Gawker for Hogan, it was morally wrong to use the legal system strictly for retribution.

3. It is your moral obligation to litigate all litigable acts. This is absurd, prima facie: all our money and time should go towards litigation? Nah.

In other words, yeah, the motives matter. Thiel went above and beyond the call of duty and acted unethically, in an especially egregious and self-serving way available only to billionaires, along the way.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by imgabe on Thursday May 26, 2016 @12:53PM (#11779471)
Another way to look at it is this: It happened. For the most part, everyone is better off because it did. If that weren't the case, we would have done something to stop it.

"Moral obligations" are made-up. Obligated by whom? What happens if someone doesn't fulfill their moral obligation? Nothing, right? Maybe someone writes a comment on the Internet saying they should be ashamed, but that's pretty much it.

Feel free to pontificate all you like about the morality of it. That won't change the fact that it did happen and will happen again unless a force powerful enough to stop it chooses to do so.

Ultimately, the whole point of having a justice system is to sort out these questions. Anybody can sue anyone else for any reason. We depend on the courts to sort out the ones that are valid from the ones that are invalid. In this case, the courts deemed this a valid lawsuit. If you disagree with the validity of it or feel the methods by which the courts make these judgments is flawed, then that's one thing, but the rules of the system allow any lawsuit to be brought for any reason.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by andkon on Thursday May 26, 2016 @01:05PM (#11779592)
If the only way you can argue for Peter Thiel's actions is to deny moral realism, then, uh, I think we've said all that we need to say on the topic.
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by imgabe on Thursday May 26, 2016 @01:09PM (#11779631)
If the only way you can argue against them is to refer to some rules you made up, I agree.

In any event "retribution" is an overly simplistic way of looking at what Thiel did. It could also be interpreted as protecting future victims of Gawker.

Suppose someone stabs me, and I live. For whatever reason, they get away and continue to run around stabbing people. If at some point in the future, they attempt to stab someone else and I stop them, killing them in the process, is that killing in retribution or protection? Maybe both. It doesn't really matter so long as we can stop people from getting stabbed.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by zadig on Thursday May 26, 2016 @01:59PM (#11780113)
What I find funny about this example is that at first I thought the "it happened" argument was going to be used in defense of the person doing the stabbing. Which, of course, it could.
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by imgabe on Thursday May 26, 2016 @03:12PM (#11780664)
Whether anybody thinks people "should" or "shouldn't" get stabbed is irrelevant. People do get stabbed. When it becomes enough of a problem, other people do something to stop it.

Gawker went and made a powerful enemy for no good reason. Outing someone who didn't want to be outed helped no one. Thiel used the considerable means at his disposal to ruin Gawker in a way that didn't harm anyone other than the owners of Gawker. Since nobody else really benefited from Gawker's existence it's unsurprising that nobody else really cares if they stop existing.

If Gawker had been exposing powerful people doing something illegal or otherwise harmful instead of just being gay or having affairs, they would have had the justice system and the public on their side and they wouldn't have lost the lawsuit.