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Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by eudox on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @10:28PM (#11774855)
"The free press" is rather a grandiose title for a rag like Gawker.

If Gawker counts as part of "the free press" -- the people Americans trust with the privilege of mediating their access to much information -- then yes, "the press" deserves whatever it gets.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by Spooky23 on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @10:56PM (#11775005)
Unpopular and distasteful speech is the entire purpose of press freedom and free speech.

Keep in mind that while many people would agree with you that Gawker is scum, various communities take offense and find tasteless all sorts of other things.

Freedom is either near absolute or useless.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by eudox on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:08PM (#11775073)
I keep that in mind. And this court decision was not made on the basis of how repugnant, malicious or vicious Gawker or Nick Denton are.

If Gawker goes bankrupt, it won't be because they're horrible people, it will be because they overstepped the bounds of the law.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by zorpner on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:19PM (#11775122)
No, it will be because a plutocrat decided to fund a lawsuit unrelated to his reason for disliking them (and apparently influenced the process of that lawsuit with the aim of destroying Gawker to the detriment of Bollea), and abused the inherent bias of our courts towards parties with disproportionate resources.

Bollea may well have had a valid case against Gawker, but we'll never know. The idea that a case with a side funded by a vengeful billionaire could be fairly decided in our court system is absurd.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by eudox on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:24PM (#11775148)
Dude, my dude, Thiel just paid for part of Hogan's legal fees.

That money's not gonna conjure up evidence from the luminiferous aether.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by FireBeyond on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:31PM (#11775175)
The issue is that Bollea dropped a part of the lawsuit that would have allowed the award to be paid out by the insurer - that reduces both the likelihood and amount of money that Bollea will receive, on the face of it, acting in a manner contrary to his own best interest, and in Thiel, lawsuit financier's, stated interests.
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by eudox on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:38PM (#11775204)
>acting in a manner contrary to his own best interest

Hogan is a famous, well-liked millionaire[0] already. And he almost certainly doesn't like Gawker.

So maybe he thought, "I can give up some of these millions and these parasites will not publish another damned lie again". In return, he also gets the eternal gratitude of people who hate Gawker (all decent human beings).

Seems like his actions align quite well with his interests.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk_Hogan#Finances

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by FireBeyond on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:44PM (#11775227)
Yes, I can see the motivations of someone who confessed bankruptcy or near bankruptcy who initially sued Gawker for damages - got a very large award, and only after Thiel got involved decided to drop a part of the lawsuit that might help him actually receive all/some/any of the award - as not being worthy of any question at all.

Your own link says he is no longer a millionaire. He changed from financial motivations to moral superiority after the investment of someone who wants to destroy Gawker (not that Hogan might not also want that)... reducing your ability to receive damages doesn't seem to align to me as well as it does to you.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by eudox on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:48PM (#11775248)
Eh, it's a difference of a few million, maybe tens of millions. A small price to pay to watch this pustulent sore on humanity's face collapse and burn as a result of your actions.

Me, I'd take that cut.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by zorpner on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:32PM (#11775178)
People with more resources win more lawsuits. Do you believe that this is because they are more frequently wronged?
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by eudox on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:42PM (#11775220)
Gawker didn't lose this trial because they ran out of money to pay their lawyers, they lost because a jury of their peers found they were guilty as sin.
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by glenstein on Thursday May 26, 2016 @10:22AM (#11778133)
They lost because a billionaire, who didn't like them for reasons entirely independent of the merits of the case, spent time and resources canvassing for opportunities to punish Gawker.

As Thiel himself said, "even someone like Terry Bollea who is a millionaire and famous and a successful person didn’t quite have the resources to do this alone."

Thiel also said that, but for his involvement the plaintiffs would have accepted a pittance. The outcome is largely a consequence of an the intervention of an outside party, not merely the merits of the case itself.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by TheCoelacanth on Thursday May 26, 2016 @11:53AM (#11778925)
Gawker is a company with $45 million in revenue. They have plenty of money to defend themselves from a single lawsuit. If anything, Thiel just leveled the playing field.
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by vintermann on Thursday May 26, 2016 @04:48AM (#11776533)
Well, in terms of resources, Thiel has more than Denton, who in turn has more than Bollea.

I think it's a moot point, since both Thiel and Denton have enough money that throwing more money at lawyers would do practically no good. Yes, people with more resources win more lawsuits, but there are diminishing returns.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by PhasmaFelis on Thursday May 26, 2016 @02:29AM (#11776003)
> No, it will be because a plutocrat decided to fund a lawsuit unrelated to his reason for disliking them

It was directly related his reason for disliking them. In fact, it was practically the same reason.

> and apparently influenced the process of that lawsuit with the aim of destroying Gawker to the detriment of Bollea

How so? Bollea was already a millionaire; he didn't need the money, and he wasn't materially damaged in any case. He wasn't going after Gawker for the payout; he wanted to see them punished for what they did to him, and dissuaded from doing it to anyone else. This outcome serves his interests much better than a bit of extra money would.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by zwerdlds on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:24PM (#11775146)
Are you genuinely advocating the limitless disclosure of nude images of people, with no legal recourse to prevent that?

Am I grossly misunderstanding this case?

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by millstone on Thursday May 26, 2016 @02:19AM (#11775952)
The critique of Thiel is not about the particulars of this case. Say there was some absurd exculpatory event, like it comes out that Hogan paid Gawker to publish the video. It ultimately wouldn't matter: Thiel would continue to locate and fund lawsuits against Gawker.

The concern is that this is a generic strategy for destroying any media org you dislike. Simply locate and fund any and all lawsuits, forever. Any critical story could be libel. Any publishing of secrets could be an invasion of privacy. A weak case can be pumped up with enough money. Eventually the billionaire wins the war of attrition.

This is not hypothetical. Mother Jones was similarly attacked for publishing Mitt Romney's 47% comments. http://www.motherjones.com/media/2015/10/mother-jones-vander...

This is the very definition of a chilling effect on free speech!

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by eridius on Thursday May 26, 2016 @02:35AM (#11776035)
And yet the alternative is to allow vile publications like Gawker to continue to cause damage to the general public without anyone able to stand up to them.

It's also important to point out that Thiel is not manufacturing bogus cases to try and overwhelm a company with lawsuits. He's trying to find legitimate victims of Gawker and fund their lawsuits. These aren't frivolous claims, they're merely claims that the victims may not have been able to afford to file otherwise.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by zwerdlds on Thursday May 26, 2016 @10:13AM (#11778078)
Yeah I'm with you on that angle. Dumping money onto lawyers to attack people you don't like costs them legal fees to simply defend themselves.

The post I was responding to was advocating apparently limitless free speech, though. Chilling effects SHOULD apply to certain things, and unapproved pornography of yourself maybe should be one of those?

Limitless speech but limited recourse isn't worth advocating, IMO.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by mirimir on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:48PM (#11775249)
Well, "press freedom and free speech" are about what the government can and can't do. Private litigation is rather orthogonal to that, no?

Edit: Actually, "free speech" arguably includes the funding of private litigation.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by danielrhodes on Thursday May 26, 2016 @03:24AM (#11776223)
This isn't entirely true. Freedom of speech describes the relationship between the government and the people, not between two people. Furthermore, the Supreme Court has decided that freedom of speech in the strictest sense only applies to political speech.
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by RockyMcNuts on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @10:52PM (#11774971)
"Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you're really in favor of free speech, then you're in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you're not in favor of free speech."
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by eudox on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:04PM (#11775046)
Denton and the people in his employ have their right to free speech, and Hulk Hogan has the right to use the beautiful system of Anglosphere common law -- certainly the best legal system in the world -- to deal with Gawker's poison.

(Goebbels and Stalin is a bit too hyperbolic, I think. Maybe try and scale it down -- say, Joe McCarthy.)

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by RockyMcNuts on Thursday May 26, 2016 @12:01AM (#11775295)
so...no objection to any billionaire with a grudge starting a secret trust fund for anyone to use to to sue you?

I love liberty as much as the next guy, but libertarianism all too often seems to mean the liberty of the guy with money and power to mess with the little guy.

Seems a little weird that a self-professed libertarian like Thiel aligns with Trump, noted authoritarian who's not above calling for violence against those who disagree with him, wants to go after Jeff Bezos and Amazon because he doesn't like what the Washington Post says, calls the CNN control room to tell them what to cover, while at the same time threatening to cancel CNN's 'FCC license' and take them off the air.

Personally, if a boot is stomping on my face I'm not that concerned with whether it's a private boot or a public boot. I'm not cool with government telling the press what to print, and I'm not cool with large capital pools going on secret vendettas against media that doesn't do what they want, and making sure they get sued on any completely unrelated thing that comes up where they might be vulnerable.

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by TAForObvReasons on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:22PM (#11775136)
> Goebbels and Stalin is a bit too hyperbolic

Parent was quoting Noam Chomsky

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by ikeboy on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @11:30PM (#11775171)
>certainly the best legal system in the world

Citation/argument needed

Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by ElComradio on Thursday May 26, 2016 @01:25AM (#11775699)
Gawker is not liable for publishing a story about Hogan's sex tape. They are liable for publishing the actual explicit sex tape without his consent.
Re:Peter Thiel, Tech Billionaire, Reveals Secret War with Ga... by EdiX on Thursday May 26, 2016 @02:31AM (#11776011)
I agree 100% but is someone else's sex tape speech? It doesn't inform the public of anything it needed to know and it doesn't express an opinion.