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A comment on China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet works. Parent comment

Re:China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet... by kbenson on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @12:30PM (#11762925)
Isn't it all relative? Couldn't a fully libertarian state make some claims about freedom regarding the US that are similar to the claims the US makes regarding China? That's the problem with using something as vague and over-encompassing as "freedom", it's only a step removed from "evil" in how vague it can be. Additionally, all freedoms are not created equal. Is my right to due process as important as my right to bear arms? Are some of my views on my rights colored by the culture I live in, or are they all universal?

I think China is lacking in some important rights, but I think being vague about them to the degree that we say they have "less freedom" only muddies the problem, and allows people to use the rights they do have as a counter-argument. Being clear that China's suppression of free speech allows them to shape discourse, suppress ideas they don't like, and propagandize their citizens easily makes the dangers clear. It does also open up the discussion for how the west attempts to accomplish the same things through the media, but that's not necessarily a bad thing have have brought up.

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Re:China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet... by acbabis on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @03:00PM (#11764530)
> Isn't it all relative? Couldn't a fully libertarian state make some claims about freedom regarding the US that are similar to the claims the US makes regarding China?

No, there's a fundamental difference between living in a country where you have recourse against the government and living in one where you don't.

In the US, I am not allowed to say things that are considered slanderous, but I am allowed to say that I should be allowed to say things that are slanderous. This makes it at least possible to change the status quo.

The same is not true in countries without free speech protections.

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Re:China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet... by kbenson on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @05:22PM (#11765605)
Considering the second part of my comment, I'm not sure how this is anything but a non sequitur. You start with "No", and then do exactly what I say you should, which is to explain in detail what the problem is, and not just resort to "not free" as your evidence.
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Re:China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet... by acbabis on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @05:54PM (#11765847)
My bad. It took me several re-reads of your comment to figure out that you were attacking the usage of the word "freedom" and not comparisons between freedoms in China and other countries.
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Re:China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet... by kbenson on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @06:53PM (#11766221)
Fair enough. If it took you several readings, then I probably wasn't very clear. At a minimum, our exchange might have clarified my intent for others who were unclear on my point, so I thank you for that.
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Re:China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet... by tremon on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @03:31PM (#11764775)
The same is not true in countries without free speech protections.

I'm not convinced. I've seen plenty of (presumably) US citizens complain here that Europe doesn't have free speech, because we have laws to curb hate speech.

Still, we are very much free to discuss and organize against our government.

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Re:China’s scary lesson to the world: Censoring the Internet... by acbabis on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @03:50PM (#11764925)
If you are allowed to criticize policy, you have a discrete and specific right that people in other parts of the world do not. My point was that saying "it's all relative" doesn't tell the whole story, though I'm beginning to see that that was probably kbenson's point as well.
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