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Re:Japan adding mandatory programming education to all eleme... by mikekchar on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @02:15AM (#11759309)
I don't know when you taught here, so hard to say but a couple of things have changed in the last 10 years or so. First, they have introduced a "foreign language" class for elementary school children. I know some people who have taught it and they have a lot of praise for the program. It focusses on simply interacting with foreigners and includes many different languages. Personally, I've noticed a big difference in my rural town in Japan. Small children now often walk up to me and try to use their English. They always seem thrilled when their phrases work ("Hello. My name is Tarou. What is your name?", "I am fine. How are you?", etc)

Also the instruction of both junior high school and high school English has changed. It is now (officially, anyway) taught using only English in the classroom. I left the year before it entered high school, so I never officially participated, but I got some of the students who went through the junior high program. Even in my very low level school, the fluency improved dramatically.

Finally, they began demoting teachers with poor language skill a few years ago. It's actually a bit unfortunate because some good teachers got demoted whereas poor teachers with good language skill got promoted. I suppose you can't have everything.

Anyway, they are improving over time. The one thing I should point out is that teaching language fluency is actually very difficult. Things like grammar translation is still considered the best technique in many universities. Even though Pimsleur demonstrated the effectiveness of spaced repetition in the 60's, virtually nobody builds lessons that way. If you look at the ideas of Stephen Krashen and techniques like TPRS, even though they are very effective for fluency, only the lunatic fringe utilize them.

I actually gave a demonstration of TPRS (and related skills like circling) to the Shizuoka board of education once. They seemed very excited and even said, "This is the way English should be taught", so I have some hope that they are looking in the right direction. But again, nobody gets this right. Even the most effective techniques are still quite barbaric IMHO. It's one of the reasons I'm sad to be out of language education. Lot's of important discoveries to be made ;-)

Re:Japan adding mandatory programming education to all eleme... by allendoerfer on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @11:55AM (#11762581)
English skills of people in their early twenties still suck. There are programs in Japanese universities where foreigners teach locals English. Some of these teachers are from Australia, but for most of them English is not their first language either.
Re:Japan adding mandatory programming education to all eleme... by mikekchar on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @09:25PM (#11767014)
Keep in mind that your average 10 year old native English speaker also sucks at English. Sit them down in front of the TV and have them explain what was said on the news. Generally, they can't do it because their English is actually not good enough to understand.

Learners of a second language are often at a disadvantage because they expect adult level proficiency in a short period of time. They often forgo focussing on fluency in order to chase that proficiency. In the end they fail at both.

Some of the most unfortunate myths that persist about language learning really hurt. For example, if you ask the average person how many words of vocabulary they need to be "fluent", they often pick numbers like 2000. But that's the level of vocabulary for a 2 or 3 year old. Adult level proficiency requires upwards of 20,000 word families.

Basically, what I'm trying to get at is that English skills of people in their early twenties are guaranteed to suck unless they are using English almost as much as their native language. It takes native people 10-20 years to get a good level of proficiency. What we can hope to do is to refocus education on fluency rather than proficiency so that at least people can converse freely in a small area. Then over time they will gradually accumulate proficiency in other areas.

This opinion is unfortunately not widely shared in the teaching profession at large :-(

Re:Japan adding mandatory programming education to all eleme... by allendoerfer on Wednesday May 25, 2016 @08:16AM (#11769199)
I think you are right. But I was comparing their English skills to other second language speakers of the same age, who are so much better than them, that the universities realized this and are now (rightfully) trying to benefit of the fact.
Re:Japan adding mandatory programming education to all eleme... by marak830 on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @03:02AM (#11759483)
I'm going to look into this, thank you. I am always interested in learning better ways to teach the students :)
Re:Japan adding mandatory programming education to all eleme... by mikekchar on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @03:04AM (#11759496)
I have some notes somewhere around here as I was half way through writing a text book before I went back into programming. Give me a shout at my username @ gmail.com.
Re:Japan adding mandatory programming education to all eleme... by marak830 on Tuesday May 24, 2016 @03:08AM (#11759526)
hey thanks will do!