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Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by superuser2 on Friday May 20, 2016 @12:33PM (#11739232)
I propose that credit card debt is simply the earliest signal of "not making enough money to sustain the life you think of as normal."

We have not yet come to terms with the fact that the overwhelming majority of people outside of a tiny sliver of elites are going to be lucky to afford bare subsistence in the years to come. Credit card debt lets us delay confrontation with the reality that wages have not grown enough, employment is not strong enough for most people in middle-class jobs to live the lives we used to think of as middle class.

Of course you reach for plastic before you stop buying groceries.

Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by JonFish85 on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:13PM (#11740123)
Credit card debt probably isn't the "earliest" signal of that. We've been running pretty solid federal deficits for going on 40 years now -- that's probably a good indication that people feel that they deserve more than they pay for.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by damptowel on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:24PM (#11740226)
Governments have been running deficits for 5000 years, it's how currency is established.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by toomuchtodo on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:42PM (#11740389)
US citizens are binging on credit to make up for stagnant wages. That's not a theory, that's a fact. First it was housing, now its credit card and auto loan debt.

Fun fact: Subprime auto loan bonds are in a slow motion trainwreck:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/15/investing/subprime-unpaid-au...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-21/this-is-wh...

Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by mac01021 on Friday May 20, 2016 @09:50PM (#11742791)
You're asserting that, if wages were not stagnant, people would not binge on credit? Maybe that's true, but I doubt it's noncontroversial enough to be declared "fact rather than theory".
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by dionidium on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:58PM (#11740507)
Analogies from federal budgets to household ones are specious at best
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by mac01021 on Friday May 20, 2016 @09:53PM (#11742801)
Why? In both cases a deficit imposes a burden on our future selves or our descendants.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by ArkyBeagle on Friday May 20, 2016 @11:27PM (#11743056)
Because presumed GDP growth eclipses the debt over time. They ran cool BILLIONS in terrifying debt in the US in WWII. Now? A billion is what a mid sized company costs.

And if you don't run any debt, it's like having zero body fat in cold climates. No insulation, and any caloric deficit causes much more severe problems.

Nobody said it had to be simple.

Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by mac01021 on Saturday May 21, 2016 @09:53AM (#11744661)
But why does that make analogies to household finance invalid? It may also make sense for a household to take on debt if there is projected income growth.

Also, isn't the accumulation of body fat the definition of a surplus, rather than a deficit? In both cases, having run a surplus in the past provides protection for when you must run a deficit in the future.

Furthermore, are you suggesting that, a metabolic analogy is more correct than a household-finance analogy?

Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by ArkyBeagle on Saturday May 21, 2016 @03:29PM (#11745836)
The Household Debt Fallacy is a specialization of the Fallacy of Composition.

1) The debt is eclipsed by GDP rise over time. 2) A government ( at least used to ) be able to very slightly weaken its currency to equalize for GDP and population growth. 3) Mild inflation acts to equalize the effects of private debt as well.

I use the metabolic analogy because the risks of no body fat and low body fat are quite different, much as the risks of mild inflation and no inflation - or more accurately, deflation - are quite different.

Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by nametakenobv on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:03PM (#11740058)
Please stop with this heart-breaking narrative about the unequal in income, starving americans. It's about iphones and clothes, not groceries.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by jandrese on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:32PM (#11740307)
Or medical bills. It only takes one major illness to ruin your average American family.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by nametakenobv on Friday May 20, 2016 @03:16PM (#11740629)
I can see that.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by dionidium on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:56PM (#11740484)
iPhones and new clothes are exactly the kinds of things that the middle classes can't really afford, but think of as normal.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by superuser2 on Friday May 20, 2016 @03:15PM (#11740623)
+1. People who have not yet internalized that they are poor, sustaining to themselves and their children the lie that they are their parents' version of middle class.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by toomuchtodo on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:16PM (#11740163)
> Nearly half of Americans would have trouble finding $400 to pay for an emergency.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secre...

Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by kdamken on Friday May 20, 2016 @03:10PM (#11740588)
I'd be interested to see your (or anyone from that article's) monthly spending/expenses and income. Do you have crazy medical bills or student loans that you can't avoid?

Do you budget your money out and track every transaction? It sucks to be in that situation, but there are always things you can do to improve it.

Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by toomuchtodo on Friday May 20, 2016 @03:41PM (#11740836)
I've edited the comment. The part "I'm one of them" is from the article title.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by kdamken on Friday May 20, 2016 @03:59PM (#11740982)
Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. Congrats on saving that much too! Sounds like you're on track to do very well.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by toomuchtodo on Friday May 20, 2016 @06:20PM (#11741977)
Only because I fell hard financially first.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by nametakenobv on Friday May 20, 2016 @03:17PM (#11740636)
If they have their CCs maxed out for clothes and bar tabs, of course that's gonna be the case.
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by toomuchtodo on Friday May 20, 2016 @03:39PM (#11740825)
Do you truly believe half of Americans are maxing out their credit cards on bar tabs and clothing? Does that make sense when the majority of bankruptcies are from medical debt?
Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by mikeash on Friday May 20, 2016 @04:13PM (#11741107)
I don't think credit card debt is driving people into bankruptcy, mostly. From what I've seen (which isn't a ton, but some), people just build it up slowly buying toys and treats. Eventually they stop, either because they get smarter or just can't get any more credit, and then either sustain the debt or very slowly pay it down.

It's hard to go bankrupt from this directly because they're careful not to lend you more than you can pay back. It doesn't always work, of course, but they do a decent job of figuring that out.

Note that a lot of medical bankruptcies aren't bankruptcies due to medical bills alone, but are people with insurance who go bankrupt due to a combination of deductibles, additional non-medical expenses related to the illness, and a sudden reduction in their ability to work. Having a bunch of credit card debt instead of a bunch of savings could easily put someone in that situation, so the two probably work together a lot.

Re:Credit-Card Debt Nears $1 Trillion as Banks Push Plastic by ArkyBeagle on Friday May 20, 2016 @11:15PM (#11743016)
No, it's mostly just not allowing for relatively small bumps in the road. A water heater here, a transmission there, next thing you know...