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Re:Federal Judge Says Internet Archive's Wayback Machine a L... by throwaway7767 on Thursday May 19, 2016 @09:31AM (#11730022)
In many European countries, we have legal deposit laws that require the national library to run archival web crawls, at least of the country TLD and sometimes on a best-effort basis for material outside the TLD that's considered relevant (based on language, for example).

These laws specify that the crawls are stored untampered and guarantee that the results can be considered valid evidence.

Interestingly, that's how the Internet Archive's heritrix crawler came about - the nordic national libraries were saddled with this requirement but didn't really have the technical infrastructure to implement it. They formed a coalition among themselves and brought the Internet Archive into it (the IIPC[0]), and used it to fund development of heritrix.

[0] http://netpreserve.org/

Re:Federal Judge Says Internet Archive's Wayback Machine a L... by corecoder on Thursday May 19, 2016 @10:06AM (#11730269)
That's interesting, I'd like to know more about the specific European situation on this.

There have been a few cases (in Italy, but not only) where someone sued someone else for defamation (or is it libel?), bringing a screenshot of a tweet, Facebook post etc. as "proof"; all such cases have been dropped because a screenshot cannot possibly be used as evidence.

It is not clear (at least not to me) how someone could proceed in order to obtain proof in these cases.

Re:Federal Judge Says Internet Archive's Wayback Machine a L... by pdabbadabba on Thursday May 19, 2016 @10:24AM (#11730412)
> defamation (or is it libel?)

Both are right. Defamation is a general term that encompasses both libel and slander. Libel is written, slander is spoken. When in doubt, just say "defamation."

> a screenshot cannot possibly be used as evidence

Generally speaking, I see no reason why this should be the case. And screenshots are routinely used as evidence in U.S. courts. Of course, if the opposing side challenges the accuracy of the screenshot, then you'll need to give more evidence (testimony, probably) about how it was produced. But that doesn't mean that screenshots are per se unreliable.

Re:Federal Judge Says Internet Archive's Wayback Machine a L... by corecoder on Friday May 20, 2016 @03:32AM (#11736079)
Of course in the cases I mentioned the opposing side challenged the screenshots; screenshots are not invalid by themselves, but if I bring a screenshot and claim that it's not been forged, that's still just my word, so it cannot add value to my word.
Re:Federal Judge Says Internet Archive's Wayback Machine a L... by sandworm101 on Thursday May 19, 2016 @10:59AM (#11730720)
You always need testimony in US courts. Evidence is not just admitted, someone has to vouch for it (not the legal term).
Re:Federal Judge Says Internet Archive's Wayback Machine a L... by pdabbadabba on Thursday May 19, 2016 @11:39AM (#11731018)
Yes, that's right. I was just trying to stay out of the procedural weeds a bit.
Re:Federal Judge Says Internet Archive's Wayback Machine a L... by zerocrates on Thursday May 19, 2016 @11:55AM (#11731142)
Well, there is such a thing as self-authenticating evidence.
Re:Federal Judge Says Internet Archive's Wayback Machine a L... by throwaway7767 on Thursday May 19, 2016 @10:15AM (#11730332)
The IIPC has some more information (I'm not too knowledgeable about the legal side), looks like Italy doesn't have such laws, at least it's not listed: http://netpreserve.org/legal-deposit

That said, the specific examples of twitter or facebook posts is still a problem - those huge centralised services are hard to properly archive without direct assistance from the companies in question. I know some of the national libraries are trying, but it's far from a solved problem.