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Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by pritambarhate on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @03:06PM (#11724812)
Is there an Open Source version of Firebase which we can use on our own hardware if we wish to? Vendor lock-in is the biggest fear I have with Firebase.

Like Facebook (Parse), if Google also decides that Firebase is not profitable and decides to close down, how do we run our applications without rewriting?

How do we protect ourselves, if Google decides to increase the price of Firebase 3-4 times in a single day?

Even just a public pledge from Google saying that they will open source the full featured Firebase if they decide to close down the devision will go a long way to alleviate this fear.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by aeosynth on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @03:17PM (#11724911)
Horizon[0] was announced yesterday; it's basically an open-source Firebase built on RethinkDB.

[0]: https://github.com/rethinkdb/horizon

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by pritambarhate on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @03:24PM (#11724980)
This seems quite interesting. Hope they chose MIT or Apache for license as said in the ReadMe.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by spb on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @03:27PM (#11725014)
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by guelo on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @04:34PM (#11725681)
Horizon is only the "realtime db" portion of Firebase and it's only for Javascript, not Android or iOS. The mobile app realtime network connection tech is especially tricky to get right without draining a user's battery by doing things like constantly polling the backend. I have not seen anything from RethinkDB along those lines.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by hiphipjorge on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @05:09PM (#11725986)
> by doing things like constantly polling the backend

RethinkDB doesn't require polling. It's like their #1 feature and differentiator from other non-sql databases.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by EGreg on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @07:57PM (#11726993)
What do they do?

We use websockets in our realtime platform.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by coffeemug on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @08:37PM (#11727141)
The Horizon client uses websockets to connect to the Horizon server. The Horizon server uses RethinkDB's protocol[1] to connect to the database.

[1] http://rethinkdb.com/docs/writing-drivers/

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by guelo on Thursday May 19, 2016 @12:00AM (#11727861)
Websockets cannot be as efficient as native network management code.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by jkarneges on Thursday May 19, 2016 @01:00AM (#11728092)
What does this even mean? WebSockets can be used natively. In fact the Firebase client uses WebSockets, same as Horizon.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by guelo on Thursday May 19, 2016 @01:55AM (#11728301)
Sorry I was confused about terms, what I was thinking of was Javascript vs native. Native code can do more than a browser sandboxed client can.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by zeeshanm on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @06:02PM (#11726351)
Horizon uses push architecture by default so there is no need to pool.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by kuschku on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @05:27PM (#11726116)
> is especially tricky to get right without draining a user's battery by doing things like constantly polling the backend

One simple solution is giving each state a defined name, and keeping a socket open from mobile. If the connection is restarted, each side can name their current state, and the delta can also be easily synced.

Later on, changes can be directly transmitted via the socket.

(I am working on something like that currently myself).

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by dmitriz on Thursday May 19, 2016 @04:36AM (#11728825)
I presume you can still use it with any mobile App wrapped as native e.g. via React Native or Ionic.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by curiousGambler on Thursday May 19, 2016 @09:38AM (#11730063)
I was at ng-conf a couple weeks ago. Talking to the Firebase guy at their booth, he goes "You should talk to the RethinkDB guys, it's the same thing but open source." I got a kick out of it.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by JoshTriplett on Thursday May 19, 2016 @04:21AM (#11728773)
What about the new "Firebase Cloud Messaging", formerly GCM?
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by troika on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @05:06PM (#11725969)
Overview of open source alternatives: https://deepstream.io/blog/realtime-framework-overview/
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by ginkgotree on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @04:10PM (#11725453)
I'd second Horizon. I've been working with RethinkDB for over a year, and really believe in their commitment to RethinkDb's core technology, and their deep understanding of what is needed to build reactive web apps.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by wolframhempel on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @04:53PM (#11725855)
https://deepstream.io is an open source server that's basically a self hosted firebase. It supports data-sync, pub/sub and rpcs and can scale horizontally to millions of connections.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by nwrk on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @03:19PM (#11724937)
Self hosted 'firebase' from RethinkDB team http://horizon.io/
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by csmajorfive on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @03:09PM (#11724836)
I think it's less likely to happen here because Google is investing heavily in building a business around developer services.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by mybigsword on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @03:12PM (#11724856)
I cannot agree with that. Google Cloud services are way too small comparing to AWS or Azure and they don't make a lot of money with it. They can discontinue it easily.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by dandelany on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @04:26PM (#11725590)
GCS is relatively small today, but it's growing fast, and Google is investing a ton of money and resources into it right now. They've added a bunch of new systems and promised more coming soon. They also just signed a huge deal to host all of Spotify's data. Cloud Services aren't going anywhere, in fact my perception is that Google would like them to replace advertising as their #1 moneymaker.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by manigandham on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @04:26PM (#11725598)
Google Cloud is way more advanced than both AWS and Azure in many ways and just as big in capacity, if not customers yet. Cloud computing will likely be more profitable than ads in the future for them and they announced billions in new investment just a few months ago to build out the platform further.

It's not going anywhere.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by throwawaykf05 on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @05:26PM (#11726112)
Microsoft put billions into Windows Phone and many (including me) think it's superior to iOS and Android, but what's its market share now? What I mean is, even if it is technically better, will Google Cloud get customers? AWS has a huge head start with significant mindshare, and Microsoft has its pre-existing enterprise customers sewed up. With tech funding drying up, where will Google find its customers?
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by manigandham on Thursday May 19, 2016 @02:30AM (#11728426)
You're vastly underestimating the computing market. Startups/tech funding are a microscopic part of the industry. There are millions of small businesses and thousands of major corporations that are slowly moving into the cloud which are all new customers for the taking.

AWS has a head start and a great product catalog, Azure has the windows/office/server ecosystem, but Google has been doing scaled computing for a very long time and has contributed to many of the innovations in the industry. Although they're newer with less features, what they do have is more advanced and the Google name carries a lot of weight and reputation.

Most corporations are still focused on just moving over to IaaS with compliance and security first and Google has done a great job building a solid foundation for this which should pay dividends in the future.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by throwawaykf05 on Friday May 20, 2016 @02:14AM (#11735835)
> Most corporations are still focused on just moving over to IaaS with compliance and security first

Yes but my point is AWS has more mindshare and MS has more leverageable pre-existing business inroads with a huge number of these corporations.

> and Google has done a great job building a solid foundation for this which should pay dividends in the future

That seems rational, but the countless examples of "worse is better" in life indicate that that outcome is far from guaranteed.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by unclebucknasty on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @11:15PM (#11727707)
Yeah, the challenge is that it seems to rely on Google services (not just libraries) at the app layer in a way that screams lock-in.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by unclebucknasty on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @11:28PM (#11727753)
Downvote? Is it not reliant on Google services?
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by ignoramous on Thursday May 19, 2016 @10:53PM (#11735298)
HN crowd is pro-Google, I feel. I get pounded with downvotes, the moment I speak against the darling of the Bay Area (?)
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by unclebucknasty on Thursday May 19, 2016 @11:07PM (#11735340)
That would definitely explain it.

Never liked the downvoting idea, but if it must be, then it would be nice if people were at least required to comment while downvoting and open themselves to downvotes for their whacked, baseless downvotes.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by ignoramous on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @04:44PM (#11725767)
> Google Cloud is way more advanced than both AWS and Azure in many ways

I see this being thrown around here a lot. Buying into Google's PR is what this is. If you've valid points apart from BigQuery vs RedShift, I'd request you to enumerate them for me.

I have personally interacted with Googlers who lament the fact that 'no one internally bothers using most of GCP' and hence not being able to 'iterate/innovate as fast as AWS' is a key disadvantage despite their 'superior offerings', whatever that means.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by manigandham on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @05:17PM (#11726049)
> Buying into Google's PR is what this is

Really? Have you actually used it or done any research?

1. Container Engine = built on kubernetes, faster and easier than the others

2. Compute Engine = VMs start faster, customizable rather than set sizes, live migration when the host has maintenance or starts to fail, NVME SSDs available with < 1ms latency

3. Networking = faster and more consistent performance, all the regions are connected which makes cross-regional/global deployments easier and more secure

4. Load balancing = actually routes the traffic automatically to the closest region and spills over based on capacity, not just DNS junk like the rest, no warmup or latency issues

5. CDN interconnects = cheaper bandwidth and lower latency using their partner CDN networks

6. Pub/Sub = great message system that doesnt need shards or anything to deal with for scaling, supports multiple subscribers and acks

7. gcloud = best shell access available to interact with pretty much everything, no keys or passwords to worry about

8. grpc APIs, fast storage/nearline, bigtable/datastore/cloud sql, Vision API, etc

Yes it's still new and there are a few frustrating issues, and AWS and Azure do have lots of products and their own special offerings, but the core Google platform is the amazing at running a bunch of servers/containers for a globally distributed app with high performance. We've tried them all and GCP has been the best so far.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by kuschku on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @05:47PM (#11726259)
And all of it nicely accessible to the US. What a great idea.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by CydeWeys on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @09:40PM (#11727344)
Amazon and Microsoft are both also US-based companies.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by kuschku on Thursday May 19, 2016 @01:29AM (#11728209)
And not any better – at least you don’t get vendor lock-in with them.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by manigandham on Thursday May 19, 2016 @02:04AM (#11728327)
What are you talking about? VMs are the same across any cloud if you just want IaaS.

They all have their own proprietary services which are valuable but it's completely your choice to use them.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by ddorian43 on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @05:34PM (#11726169)
But amazon doesn't use aws too, right ?
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by williamstein on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @03:18PM (#11724914)
+1 -- Sometimes Google does embrace open source in building services that I can trust longterm, e.g., Kubernetes. I wish Firebase (which I won't use) were being built and marketed in a similar way to Kubernetes (which I will use).
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by velohx on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @03:25PM (#11725000)
This is sarcasm, right? Here's some more equivalent sarcasm: Gmail and Google Search could discontinue easily.
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by toomuchtodo on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @03:40PM (#11725154)
Search, hardly. But Gmail? What happens when Google decides they're not monetizing Gmail sufficiently and force everyone to Inbox? What then!
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by unclebucknasty on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @11:26PM (#11727741)
You're comparing their mature businesses to their nascent cloud business. Their market share in the latter is still a fraction of the leaders'. It's very possible that Google may "lose the cloud".
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by jstoiko on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @04:45PM (#11725778)
http://ramses.tech (shameless plug)

It's not exactly the same thing but it achieves the same goal and is opensource.

API services are generated from RAML files (yaml) No code required for simple crud, biz logic can be hooked using http event handlers. Uses Elasticsearch for reads and Mongodb or Postgres for writes. Other DB can be hooked by writing the proper Db engines, it's all documented.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by gabidobocan on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @05:53PM (#11726299)
We were also looking for an open source Firebase a while ago, packed with some extra features like multiple db support and push notifications. Ended up building http://telepat.io.

Docs & specifications at http://docs.telepat.io/. Hope this helps you.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by neilellis on Thursday May 19, 2016 @07:29AM (#11729376)
Of course we always need to balance open source 'FREE as in beer' with no-maintenance commercial solutions. Opensource is extremely important but it can also be 'FREE as in puppies' adding an extra maintenance burden (self hosting, security updates etc.).

Horizon.io ticks both boxes by offering a cloud SaaS :) one could say that is the ideal product!

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by wayneacarter on Monday May 23, 2016 @01:52PM (#11755536)
[Architect from Couchbase]

Couchbase Mobile is open-sourced under Apache 2 and has all of the database and sync functionality of Firebase. From a database perspective it is more complete than Firebase. It also has enterprise level security, REST/Stream/Batch APIs, etc. Take a look and see if it meets your needs.

http://www.couchbase.com/mobile

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by kabes on Thursday May 19, 2016 @03:38AM (#11728665)
There's also Meteor
Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by marknadal on Wednesday May 18, 2016 @07:35PM (#11726892)
Another: http://gun.js.org/ & https://github.com/amark/gun

Realtime, Peer-to-Peer, Offline-First, Graph.

A podcast on its performance (25+M ops/sec) just happened on http://readthesource.io/ an hour or so ago, hangouts link: http://youtu.be/70dn1oZQFCk?a .

MIT / ZLIB / Apache 2 license - do whatever you want with it.

Re:Firebase expands to become a unified app platform by st3v3r on Thursday May 19, 2016 @12:55PM (#11731599)
"Like Facebook (Parse), if Google also decides that Firebase is not profitable and decides to close down, how do we run our applications without rewriting?"

You can architect your app sequester these 3rd party services on the edge, making any rewrite much easier.