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Re:ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where by jerf on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @10:38AM (#11628642)
Who cares what other people do? What are you going to do? Are you incapable of leveraging from an intro course in Japanese into anything you want? If so, why do you think you're going to do any better in a formal environment either? It's not like they crack open your head and pour pure distilled knowledge into it while you passively sit back and just take it in.

Also, I think people are fundamentally missing the comparitive here. My claim is not that learning humanities is "easy". Nothing worth doing is easy. My contention is that it is easier to learn math, engineering, and science in school and study humanities on your own that to learn humanities in school and then try to break into math, engineering, and science on your own.

And as I watch the conversation flow here, bear in mind I do mean "math, engineering, and science" here and not just "programming". Which is easier to do on your own, learn Japanese from scratch enough to get a relevant job, or learn biochemistry from scratch enough to get a relevant job? (Note we're also discussing "learning Japanese" as an extreme in the humanities but I consider "biochemistry" an average sort of what I'm talking about.) And part of my "easier" also encompasses the fact that life is a lot easier when you have a job and a paycheck. Someone who actually has leisure time due to not working two-and-a-half jobs and who is much more relaxed about paying off their loans will find it easier to spend their leisure time learning things.

Re:ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where by VLM on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @11:40AM (#11629104)
The meta problem is we're in the discussion comments of a linked article that buys into the belief that the only purpose of the higher ed system is monetarily rewarding vocational training.

In the real world that's a completely wrong way to look at the purpose of life and education, but in the small minded narrow constraints of the article its actually "correct".

A side issue is outside bubble areas, every low paid service industry worker has a liberal arts degree and they guarantee the ROI of self taught foreign languages or liberal arts will be zero. A guy looking for employment who merely is a lifelong expert on Japanese will never get hired if the competition is ten baristas, bartenders, and real estate agents all with bachelors or masters or PHDs in Japanese Literature.

Re:ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where by sevensor on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @01:56PM (#11630232)
The point of view you speak for -- that education is an end in itself -- is a privilege of the rich and reflects their historical attitudes towards education. Back in the day, liberal education was for the children of the rich, and it gave them culture, polish, and perspective that was hard to attain elsewhere. Those are the non-economic benefits of studying the humanities. They're certainly real, and valuable. I'd definitely prefer that people in positions of power and authority have studied philosophy, history, and literature.

However, to argue that a young person of modest means should study the humanities is just cruel. If your family and connections aren't going to set you up as a company vice president or send you to the legislature, your job prospects are dismal.

Re:ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where by emodendroket on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @11:45AM (#11629145)
Look, I'm not going to get into a pissing match about what discipline is harder. The point is that learning Japanese at a university is not an experience that could be easily duplicated somewhere else and that there are probably other "soft" disciplines of which the same could be said.
Re:ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where by coryrc on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @12:27PM (#11629470)
Learning Japanese is way easier if you just go to the country and live there. I'll guarantee if you go with the same amount of money invested in college you'll learn the language faster.
Re:ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where by emodendroket on Wednesday May 04, 2016 @12:32PM (#11629517)
Part of my studies took place in Japan; being there certainly helps but it's not the same thing (and besides that, how do you get to Japan? It's almost impossible to get a long-term visa unless you are either a student or have a degree)