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Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by creshal on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @07:44AM (#11619664)
Most countries have dozens to hundreds of government programs (a dozen federal, a dozen per state, another dozen per city, …) to support parents of underage children. You'd get rid of a lot of administrative overhead by outphasing all of them in favour of including children into basic income (maybe at a fixed reduced rate if expenses are a concern).
Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by newjersey on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @08:33AM (#11619963)
No, I'd rather we raise the basic income for every adult enough to the point where the adult can support themselves and ONE (1) child at least for bare necessities like food and shelter.

For what it is worth, I don't think anyone sane would have kids to get money. In fact, you couldn't pay me to have children and raise them. I know what a shitty brat I've been and I'm sure if God or karma exists, I'll get an equally shitty child or worse I'll make a very shitty parent. (Parents: yes, people without kids also have nightmares about fucking up as parents)

Thankfully though many if not most people want children even though it makes no sense. This is good for me because these are the kids who will build and maintain roads, hospitals, and electric lines when our generation can no longer walk without a cane.

I don't think we need to encourage people to have many children. Those who want multiple children should find alternate ways to fund their lifestyle.

Edit: I assume above that basic healthcare for everyone exists with $0 out of pocket even if it is some couple's 99th child.

Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by fucking_tragedy on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @09:42AM (#11620517)
Unfortunately, the racist caricature of the 'welfare queen' who will go out of her way to work 24/7 for 18+ years for welfare benefits that equate to less than the pay of a part time job has been used to drive conservatives to the polls since the 1980's.

It's well cemented in the public consciousness as a result, so you'll see it trotted out whenever monetary benefits are proposed to help children.

Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by sosuke on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @11:17AM (#11621387)
The key is to arguing that it is a minor drain on the proposed system and appeal to the moral high ground. Don't deny all the good people help because you want to deny a few bad people help. There will always be leeches on any system.

No idea at all how to do that though.

Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by techabuse on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @10:57AM (#11621220)
>I know what a shitty brat I've been and I'm sure if God or karma exists, I'll get an equally shitty child or worse I'll make a very shitty parent.

Man, that kept me up many a night before my kid was born! She turned out to be amazing, though. Definitely didn't get it from me.

We had to rely on EBT (food stamps) and Medicaid when she was little and we were both in college. Medicaid was amazing, at least for someone who couldn't afford to go to a doctor for a decade or more beforehand, but besides that perk the welfare benefits for having a child basically balanced out the increased costs of raising one. Can't say how well this would scale with n+1 kids though.

Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by dalore on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @08:10AM (#11619805)
Can see it now. Pop out more children, get more money. This incentives baby making. Which might actually be a good thing in countries with declining birth rates.
Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by danharaj on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @08:21AM (#11619887)
If you think it's so rational to have children for cash, you can go do it. I've never met anyone who actually thinks it's a good idea. It's always a hypothetical to malign the poor. Because people who malign the poor know exactly how poor people think, or something.
Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by creshal on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @09:32AM (#11620434)
> I've never met anyone who actually thinks it's a good idea.

I see you haven't met my mother. Count yourself lucky.

Those people exist – there's some quite generous child benefit programs in some EU countries, and the math seems to be simple –, but they're far more rare than the "OMG WELFARE PARASITES" would want you to believe. (And in many cases child protection agencies intervene and get the kids off to safety, because as it turns out, people using kids as money presses tend to have a screw loose or five.)

And honestly, I don't see the problem. People get kids for all the wrong reasons, people abuse their kids for all the wrong reasons; that won't get significantly worse. At the same time, fewer kids will grow up in crippling poverty and have their lives ruined before they turn 10 because their parents can't afford to give them any useful education outside the bare minimum provided by public schools.

Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by Unklejoe on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @08:56AM (#11620153)
Do you really not believe that some people would start having children for the sole purpose of income if there was suddenly a program that provided people with $10,000 per year in cash for every child they have?

Having children for financial benefits is a real thing.

It's not just something people accuse the poor of for the purpose of hate (although it is commonly used in such a way).

It's usually not as direct as "let me have this kid so I can get my rebate check", but it's certainly a consideration for many people who are poor. The mentality is more along the lines of "I can't make it by myself, but as a family, we might be able to sustain ourselves".

Most people are aware that it will probably end up costing them more in the long run, but people do crazy things in desperate times.

Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by PietdeVries on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @09:39AM (#11620496)
And the bad thing is, that it's in general not the cleverest set of people that make extra kids to get a higher income. Overall, the more educated people are, the smaller their families are. So this will effectively reverse everything that Darwin claimed: no survival of the fittest, but victory by the 'stupid' by overpowering the educated...

Edit: yes, I do, but I am unsure if it will stand the test of Hacker News readers :)

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2172480?seq=1#page_scan_tab_con... http://www.iqtestexperts.com/iq-family.php

Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by fucking_tragedy on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @09:46AM (#11620555)
Do you have a citation for your belief?
Re:A Basic Income Should Be the Next Big Thing by ArkyBeagle on Tuesday May 03, 2016 @09:59AM (#11620695)
This runs smack into Bismarck's Welfare/Warfare State idea - the "excess" were cannon fodder for use in further conquest.