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Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by rdudek on Thursday April 21, 2016 @01:55PM (#11544062)
Even behind a proxy, using TOR on some public/compromised wifi?
Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by alexbock on Thursday April 21, 2016 @02:15PM (#11544216)
It's just not worth tickling the dragon's tail. What would be the motivation for anyone to even try (except for maybe government-sponsored hackers in China who are probably safe from extradition and personal blame)?

Even if you bought a laptop from someone in another state on Craigslist with cash and connected to public Wi-Fi (without a cellphone on your person, of course)... I still would not feel confident that NSA couldn't track you down if you gave them a good reason to.

Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by wcummings on Thursday April 21, 2016 @02:17PM (#11544229)
>What would be the motivation for anyone to even try except for maybe government-sponsored hackers in China

For the lulz

Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by user_0001 on Thursday April 21, 2016 @02:25PM (#11544286)
and no better reason there is
Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by superuser2 on Thursday April 21, 2016 @02:55PM (#11544483)
Law enforcement will absolutely go interview the person you bought with cash from and get a sketch, maybe even a license plate off surveillance near your meeting place. Cash transactions make tracing involve more schlep than a SQL query, but they are not close to anonymous.
Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by cb18 on Thursday April 21, 2016 @04:09PM (#11545004)
How is it possible to uniquely identify a computer's hardware from over the internet?

Do you think there is a database that connects an identifying factor of all computers to their owners?

A computer vendor could maybe keep a list of device serial numbers/MAC addresses, along with non-cash payment methods, but how could law enforcement legally acquire such data, if not authorized in a specific case?

And if there is a specific case, what is the likelihood that an investigator could determine a device's serial number/MAC from over the internet(how is that even possible?) and then locate the original vendor then locate the original purchaser?

The crux of this seems to be somehow uniquely identifying a device over the internet. A vendor having a database of items sold + payment method seems more plausible.

Isn't an IP address the only identifying factor of a machine transmitted over the internet? And IP addresses aren't permanently tied to machines. Even if theoretically an IP address could somehow be used to acquire the connected MAC addresses, doesn't TOR prevent that?

I'm not an expert on this, if something is wrong here, or I'm missing something, I'd be happy to learn.

Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by superuser2 on Thursday April 21, 2016 @04:49PM (#11545240)
You'd need at least a little bit of remote code execution on the perpetrator's machine to lift his MAC address. Not guaranteed, but plausible.

I expect the manufacturer to have a database correlating MAC address, serial number, date the device left the factory, and where (i.e. which retail store) it was shipped to.

I expect the retail store's inventory tracking system to know when the device with that serial number was sold, by which cashier, at which register.

If it doesn't know the (tokenized) credit card number and name on card directly, I expect the store to be able to find its copy of the receipts from that register at that time, which would contain the last 4 digits and name on card.

If the purchase was relatively recent, I expect video of the register at that time.

If the purchase was in cash but the video is still around, I'd also expect video of the purchaser walking out to his car, and (maybe separately) a shot of that car with good enough resolution to pick out the license plate.

I don't think Joe Credit Card Fraudster gets this kind of attention, but someone who is believed to be a credible national security threat... absolutely.

Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by askldfhjkasfhd on Thursday April 21, 2016 @06:19PM (#11545730)
This is all true, but it assumes optimal data retention by retailers, and a government agency with the skills (and willpower) to do the legwork.

In reality, I would expect that one or more of those elements in the chain to be broken. Retailer lost their backups. Changed systems, threw out the old one. Doesn't keep records that far back. Etc.

I agree there is a possibility they could track all these steps, but it would require everything working perfectly (from the authorities' POV)

Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by celticninja on Friday April 22, 2016 @06:59AM (#11548259)
If the purchase was in cash for a second hand item (possibly third hand or more) then it becomes very dificult to track the buyer down. Look around a second hand store for a laptop that is more than a few years old and it is likely to have had at least one other owner since the original purchase. Do not use the laptop for at least 1 week, that way any CCTV from the store has been overwritten and really by the time they manage to trace it from the manufacturer through any owners and on to the second hand store it will be perhaps 2 weeks after purchase. At this stage even public CCTV records will start to be overwritten. If you bought one well in advance, i.e. 2 or even 3 months before you used it then it would make it nigh on impossible to find the buyer.

As an added level of security, a month after buying it make a post on craigslist to sell it as broken/not working. send an email to yourself from an internet cafe offering to buy it. Via email arrange a trade at a location without any CCTV. Plausible deniability if the police do ever show up at your door.

Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by ccvannorman on Thursday April 21, 2016 @06:46PM (#11545863)
I think the point is that some idiot is (clearly) going to be dumb/ballsy enough to try, which brings up one of my biggest pain points about surveillance / gov't power:

What can be done with those logins by someone NOT employed by the government to harm ME?

This is the kind of thing that needs to be brought up in arguments when politicians pine for safety and surveillance. The history shows us over and over that the information cannot be controlled.

Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by runchberries on Thursday April 21, 2016 @02:07PM (#11544153)
When the stakes are treason and/or Guantanamo Bay, you are still bold no matter how many precautions you take or maybe just stupid.
Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by alexbock on Thursday April 21, 2016 @02:18PM (#11544235)
Could any computer crime be reasonably interpreted as treason given the fairly strict definition in the constitution?

  Treason against the United States, shall consist only
  in levying War against them, or in adhering to their
  Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall
  be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two
  Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in
  open Court.
It wouldn't surprise me to see the government try to claim "cyber warfare" meets the bill for "levying War against them", but I can't imagine the supreme court letting that stick.

edit: If you provided hacked information to a foreign power I could see that being considered giving aid to an enemy. My original question was more focused on the actual hacking itself than what you do with the information.

Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by colinbartlett on Thursday April 21, 2016 @02:42PM (#11544400)
Treason would be a hard one because I think it only applies during wartime. But would any of our various unending wars qualify? War on terror, war on drugs? Maybe not since they weren't declared by congress.

It could be considered "light treason" however...

Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by dailyrorschach on Thursday April 21, 2016 @03:36PM (#11544817)
It's unlike it would be a Treason charge, though we are not required to be at war for that to apply. The reason would be the proof burden for Treason in court is very high, and set forth in Article III.

In truth it'd be likely to fall under federal statutes governing systems access, and probably I'd guess the 1917 Espionage Act.

Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by bdcravens on Thursday April 21, 2016 @04:07PM (#11544992)
Aside from Presidential speeches, the "wars" in Iraq and Afghanistan were never formally ended.
Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by chipperyman573 on Thursday April 21, 2016 @03:05PM (#11544562)
"The war on drugs" is not an actual war, it's just a catchphrase.
Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by tptacek on Thursday April 21, 2016 @02:54PM (#11544478)
No, "the war on drugs" does not qualify for treason.
Re:Anonymous Redditor Dumps Logins of 33K US Govt Employees by nubianwarrior on Thursday April 21, 2016 @02:08PM (#11544164)
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.