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Re:My thoughts on the Startup Visa bill by tptacek on Friday February 26, 2010 @04:55PM (#1154247)
If you're a Chinese engineer that can create 4 jobs and generate $600,000 in revenue at a company you create in the US, you should be allowed to immigate regardless of whether a "qualified super angel investor" "sponsors" you. You should be able to immigrate regardless of whether you can purchase a postage stamp to request the visa. You should be able to immigrate regardless of whether you're willing to wear pants.

Immigration carve-outs, like this one which clearly targets VC-based companies, come with a raft of unintended consequences. Look at the massive abuses generated by the H1-B visa program, where employers use their untenably lopsided negotiating position to lower working conditions for everyone by cheating immigrants. Here, we've substituted VCs for employers, and given immigrants 2 arbitrary escape hatches (generate 5 jobs, generate $1MM in revenue).

This is the wrong path for immigration reform.

Anything you do to make it more fair makes it more gameable. Graham likes to point out that people like Ron Conway are excellent people indeed, who would never game the startup visa. Who cares? You've never heard of the people who you really have to worry about with this bill.

Anything you do to make it less gameable makes it less fair. VCs are compensated for their investments by investment returns when their companies are acquired or go public. We don't need to create a new form of compensation for them by giving them a feed of entrepreneurs who are beholden to them for their family's residency in the US.

Immigration reform is a hard problem. Immigration is broken. This problem is urgent. We should address it. But I think this bill is a terrible way to do it, and that it creates more harm than it ameliorates.

Re:My thoughts on the Startup Visa bill by geebee on Friday February 26, 2010 @05:41PM (#1154344)
I agree, completely. What I'd say to the US government: take in talented people (without worrying too much about exactly how they are talented, such as preferring engineers or scientists), give them the same autonomy and freedom you'd give a US citizen, and let them choose their own path in life. Quit thinking you know what they should do, they know better than you do. They'll impress you in ways you didn't expect, and it'll be better than you expected.

Get rid of this H1B, startup visa crap.

I've had huge disagreements with other people on HN about immigration, mainly because I do believe in limits (I oppose unlimited immigration), and I think that emphasizing engineering instead of general diversity of talent is harmful. But almost everyone seems to agree that freedom and autonomy are preferable to a government mandated purpose and skill set.

Re:My thoughts on the Startup Visa bill by SilianRail on Friday February 26, 2010 @06:00PM (#1154393)
I've had this discussion hundreds of times with talented foreigners (India, German, Polish, and Chinese just to name a few). They all have had the same generic complain "why can't I just live in this country... I'm talented enough".

I fully agree...but unfortunately for these people they are tied to larg-corp H1B visas which restrict their freedom to leave the company and create jobs elsewhere.

Here is the key issue...how do you decided who is talented and who is not? This would become a highly bureaucratic issue.

Re:My thoughts on the Startup Visa bill by geebee on Friday February 26, 2010 @06:12PM (#1154419)
"Here is the key issue...how do you decided who is talented and who is not? This would become a highly bureaucratic issue."

I agree, and it makes me slightly uneasy when I say it. It does require what will ultimately be a bureaucratic judgement. I'm not sure there's a good alternative.

While I don't relish the idea of the government assuming this role, I'd still prefer it to Oracle's HR department, which is not (and probably should not be) accountable to me or any other member of the voting public. Guess it comes down to Churchill's statement "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Re:My thoughts on the Startup Visa bill by blizkreeg on Friday February 26, 2010 @05:44PM (#1154353)
Precisely. That's my entire argument. You summed it up well.

Agree on the _not unlimited immigration_ part, but when you let someone in by qualifying them, give them the freedom to pursue what they choose to, how they choose to.