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Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by mtanski on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @10:06PM (#11539154)
Bernie supporters turn me off to Bernie. I happen to agree with the guy on many (but, not all) problems facing our country and it's people.

But instead on HN, my Facebook & any story about Bernie. His supporters automatically try to counter any kind of scrutiny of the guy, his positions & his plans. For crying out loud The guy is running for president, he's not a saint and he deserves every bit of scrutiny.

Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by nitrogen on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @11:15PM (#11539413)
But instead on HN, my Facebook & any story about Bernie. His supporters automatically try to counter any kind of scrutiny of the guy, his positions & his plans. For crying out loud The guy is running for president, he's not a saint and he deserves every bit of scrutiny.

Not to justify it, but it kind of makes sense. Many of Bernie's supporters are finding a reason to participate in politics for the first time, or feeling cared about by the system for the first time, and when something threatens their new champion they feel like they themselves are threatened.

This definitely speaks to a wider phenomenon in society, where a lot of people had lost hope and are just now finding some, whether through Trump or Sanders. Taking that bit of hope away could be very destabilizing. There's also some interesting human nature in there, regarding conflating one's identity with one's beliefs.

Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by ericd on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @11:29PM (#11539478)
The point isn't that he's being scrutinized, the point is that that line of argument in the article is totally disingenuous, to the point of being almost a smear.
Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by andrewflnr on Thursday April 21, 2016 @01:33AM (#11539889)
What argument are you thinking of? GP didn't mention one in particular.
Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by ericd on Thursday April 21, 2016 @02:01AM (#11539983)
That Single Payer would increase healthcare spending by 18T, rather than just moving it around, and increase taxes, while ignoring the part where there's a corresponding decrease in private healthcare spending. The central hook of that WSJ article.
Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by ryanlol on Thursday April 21, 2016 @03:15AM (#11540186)
Assuming the 18T figure is correct, how could you just "move it around"?
Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by MagnumOpus on Thursday April 21, 2016 @04:33AM (#11540445)
Putting it simply, the amount that you pay would be moved from a line item on your pay slip called "private health insurance" paid to Aetna or whoever, to a line item called "medicare contribution" or "national health service contribution" paid to the IRS.

On the back end, rather than Aetna shelling out money to the hospital so that you can get treated for free or cheaply, the government would do so - just like it already does for Medicare and VA.

So it is not $18tn additional burden - it is a similar burden, but not going through the hands of private insurers who take a cut.

Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by peyton on Thursday April 21, 2016 @05:59AM (#11540741)
One thing I haven't seen mentioned: how do you design an organization that manages and efficiently allocates $3-4 trillion in spending across the country? Has it been done before? If so, has such an organization been legislated into existence? Meanwhile, Aetna already insures more people than many countries, so it isn't clear what we'd be getting that we aren't already. I'm curious how single payer will help in the US.
Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by ericd on Saturday April 23, 2016 @04:11AM (#11554669)
Medicare is actually relatively efficient compared to private insurance companies, and administers a very large amount of healthcare reimbursement.

Insurance is one of the things that a government can be very good at. It's not an area of great innovation, so the benefit of having it be a free market is relatively limited, and negotiation leverage is very important, so size is very beneficial. The natural tendency of the private insurers has been to consolidate and to look more and more like Medicare in terms of size. Except they also have a profit mandate, whereas Medicare doesn't, so they take a percentage of all spending and suck it out of the system. That portion isn't helpful to the users of the system.

Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by nitrogen on Thursday April 21, 2016 @03:55AM (#11540311)
I think idea is that the money currently spent by employers and individuals on insurance and direct medical costs would instead be spent on healthcare taxes, and that the current private spending is approximately enough to cover public healthcare if redirected.
Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by hartpuff on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @11:58PM (#11539590)
I think fanaticism is to be expected when it comes to politics, particularly online, where it's easy to become intransigent or immoderate, and while it's irritating, it's hardly something you can or should blame the candidate for.
Re:Almost Nothing About the ‘Apple Harvests Gold from iPhone... by vadym909 on Wednesday April 20, 2016 @11:20PM (#11539431)
He's not a Saint? Didn't he just have fly over to meet the Pope over the weekend? Who does that?